For the past week or so, there’s been a civil war on "TERF Twitter." Andrew Doyle, a long-time defender of women’s rights and biological reality was subjected to a torrent of homophobic abuse for the crime of calling a trans woman “she” during an interview.
"A purity spiral is a sociological theory which argues for the existence of a form of groupthink in which it becomes more beneficial to hold certain views than to not hold them, and more extreme views are rewarded *while expressing doubt, nuance, or moderation is punished* (a process sometimes called "moral outbidding"). It is argued that this feedback loop leads to members competing to demonstrate the zealotry or purity of their views."
Here's some evidence for Catelyn. I didn't have any bathroom stories in my article so I looked for some this morning:
(No names, high school students) - After assault, Edmond transgender bathroom policy questioned - Oklahoma - 12.8.22 - An Edmond police report indicates an Oct. 26 assault in the girls’ bathroom at Memorial High School in which a girl was ‘badly beaten’ by a male student who identified as a female.
Miguel Martinez (No trans name) - Transgender man convicted of assaulting a 10-year-old girl in a bathroom - Montana - 10.20.17
No male name (Katie Dolatowski) - 18-year-old transwoman sexually assaults underage girl in a supermarket bathroom - Scotland - 02.06.19
(Unnamed attacker) - Woman who fought after transwoman attacker in a public park bathroom tells anti-trans group to stop using her story - Washington - 03.16.17
The hyperlinks don't carry over but the article will probably be out a week from this Wednesday. I also just found an article listing 21 alleged transgender attacks in bathrooms (committed by transwomen) put out by the Family Research Council, yet, a notorious right-wing Christian think thank. But, the right-wing press are the ones reporting this and I don't include a story if I can't find a legitimate source mentioning it elsewhere. So none of those stories are in there now. But some of them include bathroom attacks.
I'll also note that transgender women are sometimes attacked by non-transfolk in bathrooms too. That's not right either. Worse, some real women are being attacked by people mistaking them from transwomen because they have short hair or look kinda butch, I guess.
The solution really is third bathrooms, but only the fetishists think that's a bad idea.
“You can tell yourself that they're all TERFs or "right-wing" and that they were never really allies anyway, but you'll be wrong.” This is me. I am the ally who supports trans rights (which are basically the same civil and human rights I want for everyone) but opposes “fetishistic, predatory men” in spaces where women are vulnerable. I won't budge on this issue, ever, I'm afraid. Call me all the names you like (royal you).
I can't improve upon this statement: "The enemy is an ideology that has abandoned objective reality and common sense and the very concept of women’s rights. It's radicalisation so extreme that it can no longer distinguish between friend and foe. It's absolutism and dishonesty and the absolute refusal to compromise."
I clicked on all the links you provide and am aghast. The very real fact that trans activists have pushed themselves into spaces where they have no right to be - LGBT most prominently - and the fact that so many who mistake bullying for compassion are blindly following, is terrifying.
Chloe Cole is a perfect example. She was horribly abused and misused. Her story should give all pause. But she is bullied and villified by the very activists who should be protecting her. She is forced to appeal to right-leaning commentators simply to be heard. Her abuse stems not from somebody "falling through the cracks," but from professional malaise. There is no excuse.
Coincidentally, I happen to have just written an article that will be a running list of trans crimes against women and children to demonstrate why TiMs don't belong in women's private spaces. I don't remember if there were any bathroom stories particularly. But I'm against men in bathrooms too. It's an article meant for folks to send to their trans-unquestioning friends who 'never heard of TW assaulting women', and pointing out that every opportunistic man (esp the ones who trans after conviction of a crime) who commit crimes against women increase the 'trans' crime rates, which is hurting the ones who don't commit crimes.
I have four categories: Criming before trans, criming after trans, criming while trans in prison, and women speak out (articles in which women - primarily female prisoners - speak out about the stress and anxiety of being housed with men).
Catelyn sounds like a classic fetishist man. Many men just don't understand the caution women have to exercise around strange men every day, and the ones who understand it the least (or do and *get off* on it) are TiMs pushing to get into women's-only spaces.
People should use language they want, not what someone else wants. In essence, if someone wants to call a transwoman a "she", that is their prerogative. If someone is compelled to call a transwoman a "she" for fear of social, political, economic or other repercussions, that is wrong. Unfortunately, the whole pronoun thing is a slippery slope, the same people who want you to use certain pronouns - which defy reality, also want you to believe that men can somehow become women by simply "feeling" like one, donning make up, wig and spinny dress.
"And that if they don’t pass as women, they shouldn’t be in the women’s bathroom or any other women’s space."...
Just to complicate things:
I am a lesbian, and have been an out one for the last forty-odd years. And, yes, they have been pretty odd (ba-da boom!). In my twenties up through my forties, I--a natural woman--dressed and looked more like a young gay man. It was the era of the androgynous dyke, and I had short hair, dressed in jeans and a motorcycle jacket, wore no makeup nor jewelry. I'm tall and have a low voice as well. I occasionally got hit on or harassed when I was out and about, a passing pick-up truck screamed "faggot" at me once, before it doubled back to do it again. I was both alarmed and amused. Alarmed because the doubling-back could have been the start of a seriously violent episode, amused because they got not only my gender but my orientation wrong.
In addition, I was routinely challenged when using public restrooms. I developed a phobia about using them, it was so common to get the fish-eye from some other woman when entering the bathroom, and I was always worried they would raise a stink, forcing me to ask them if they wished me to drop my pants so they could inspect my genitals for approval.
So this whole thing about transgender women using public restrooms has had me puzzled for a while.
And these days, I have long hair again and no longer dress exclusively in men's clothes so I rarely am mistaken for a man in public.
Gotta love that she complains about your use of talking points and lack of evidence, while responding with only talking points and lack of evidence.
Just last night I stumbled across a screen shot of a series of tweets I had found when I was still on Facebook. A few years ago, when the mantra "trans women are women" began to be posted and tweeted in huge numbers overnight, and people were still new to the concept and unafraid to ask questions about it, and even disagree, there began this online argument: people who didn't believe the mantra would make points about objective reality and truth. The phrase "2+2=4" was a very popular example of this objective reality.
The preachers of the mantra went into overdrive trying to come up with examples that prove that 2+2 doesn't always equal 4. It was astonishing, how people were twisting themselves into nonsensical positions to invent these examples.
I had forgotten all about that chapter in the insane cultural phenomenon until I found that screen shot last night.
"The “trans debate” is easily the most insane cultural phenomenon I’ve ever seen." Steve I agree fully, so I am not getting involved in it at all from a definition perspective. I am a heterosexual woman, who has been menaced far more in my lifetime by heterosexual men, not pretending to be anything else or anyone else. Here's MY definition, that I live by. (You don't have to nor does anyone else.)
Trans people are persons first, when they are genuinely transgender. Every person on the gender spectrum is a person first. That is my view. I'm sticking to it and behaving accordingly.
"A purity spiral is a sociological theory which argues for the existence of a form of groupthink in which it becomes more beneficial to hold certain views than to not hold them, and more extreme views are rewarded *while expressing doubt, nuance, or moderation is punished* (a process sometimes called "moral outbidding"). It is argued that this feedback loop leads to members competing to demonstrate the zealotry or purity of their views."
Here's some evidence for Catelyn. I didn't have any bathroom stories in my article so I looked for some this morning:
(No names, high school students) - After assault, Edmond transgender bathroom policy questioned - Oklahoma - 12.8.22 - An Edmond police report indicates an Oct. 26 assault in the girls’ bathroom at Memorial High School in which a girl was ‘badly beaten’ by a male student who identified as a female.
Miguel Martinez (No trans name) - Transgender man convicted of assaulting a 10-year-old girl in a bathroom - Montana - 10.20.17
No male name (Katie Dolatowski) - 18-year-old transwoman sexually assaults underage girl in a supermarket bathroom - Scotland - 02.06.19
(Unnamed attacker) - Woman who fought after transwoman attacker in a public park bathroom tells anti-trans group to stop using her story - Washington - 03.16.17
The hyperlinks don't carry over but the article will probably be out a week from this Wednesday. I also just found an article listing 21 alleged transgender attacks in bathrooms (committed by transwomen) put out by the Family Research Council, yet, a notorious right-wing Christian think thank. But, the right-wing press are the ones reporting this and I don't include a story if I can't find a legitimate source mentioning it elsewhere. So none of those stories are in there now. But some of them include bathroom attacks.
I'll also note that transgender women are sometimes attacked by non-transfolk in bathrooms too. That's not right either. Worse, some real women are being attacked by people mistaking them from transwomen because they have short hair or look kinda butch, I guess.
The solution really is third bathrooms, but only the fetishists think that's a bad idea.
“You can tell yourself that they're all TERFs or "right-wing" and that they were never really allies anyway, but you'll be wrong.” This is me. I am the ally who supports trans rights (which are basically the same civil and human rights I want for everyone) but opposes “fetishistic, predatory men” in spaces where women are vulnerable. I won't budge on this issue, ever, I'm afraid. Call me all the names you like (royal you).
I can't improve upon this statement: "The enemy is an ideology that has abandoned objective reality and common sense and the very concept of women’s rights. It's radicalisation so extreme that it can no longer distinguish between friend and foe. It's absolutism and dishonesty and the absolute refusal to compromise."
I clicked on all the links you provide and am aghast. The very real fact that trans activists have pushed themselves into spaces where they have no right to be - LGBT most prominently - and the fact that so many who mistake bullying for compassion are blindly following, is terrifying.
Chloe Cole is a perfect example. She was horribly abused and misused. Her story should give all pause. But she is bullied and villified by the very activists who should be protecting her. She is forced to appeal to right-leaning commentators simply to be heard. Her abuse stems not from somebody "falling through the cracks," but from professional malaise. There is no excuse.
Coincidentally, I happen to have just written an article that will be a running list of trans crimes against women and children to demonstrate why TiMs don't belong in women's private spaces. I don't remember if there were any bathroom stories particularly. But I'm against men in bathrooms too. It's an article meant for folks to send to their trans-unquestioning friends who 'never heard of TW assaulting women', and pointing out that every opportunistic man (esp the ones who trans after conviction of a crime) who commit crimes against women increase the 'trans' crime rates, which is hurting the ones who don't commit crimes.
I have four categories: Criming before trans, criming after trans, criming while trans in prison, and women speak out (articles in which women - primarily female prisoners - speak out about the stress and anxiety of being housed with men).
Catelyn sounds like a classic fetishist man. Many men just don't understand the caution women have to exercise around strange men every day, and the ones who understand it the least (or do and *get off* on it) are TiMs pushing to get into women's-only spaces.
People should use language they want, not what someone else wants. In essence, if someone wants to call a transwoman a "she", that is their prerogative. If someone is compelled to call a transwoman a "she" for fear of social, political, economic or other repercussions, that is wrong. Unfortunately, the whole pronoun thing is a slippery slope, the same people who want you to use certain pronouns - which defy reality, also want you to believe that men can somehow become women by simply "feeling" like one, donning make up, wig and spinny dress.
The comedian replacing "cis women" with "women women" is brilliant. It is my new prefix.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1533577957442634
"And that if they don’t pass as women, they shouldn’t be in the women’s bathroom or any other women’s space."...
Just to complicate things:
I am a lesbian, and have been an out one for the last forty-odd years. And, yes, they have been pretty odd (ba-da boom!). In my twenties up through my forties, I--a natural woman--dressed and looked more like a young gay man. It was the era of the androgynous dyke, and I had short hair, dressed in jeans and a motorcycle jacket, wore no makeup nor jewelry. I'm tall and have a low voice as well. I occasionally got hit on or harassed when I was out and about, a passing pick-up truck screamed "faggot" at me once, before it doubled back to do it again. I was both alarmed and amused. Alarmed because the doubling-back could have been the start of a seriously violent episode, amused because they got not only my gender but my orientation wrong.
In addition, I was routinely challenged when using public restrooms. I developed a phobia about using them, it was so common to get the fish-eye from some other woman when entering the bathroom, and I was always worried they would raise a stink, forcing me to ask them if they wished me to drop my pants so they could inspect my genitals for approval.
So this whole thing about transgender women using public restrooms has had me puzzled for a while.
And these days, I have long hair again and no longer dress exclusively in men's clothes so I rarely am mistaken for a man in public.
Gotta love that she complains about your use of talking points and lack of evidence, while responding with only talking points and lack of evidence.
Just last night I stumbled across a screen shot of a series of tweets I had found when I was still on Facebook. A few years ago, when the mantra "trans women are women" began to be posted and tweeted in huge numbers overnight, and people were still new to the concept and unafraid to ask questions about it, and even disagree, there began this online argument: people who didn't believe the mantra would make points about objective reality and truth. The phrase "2+2=4" was a very popular example of this objective reality.
The preachers of the mantra went into overdrive trying to come up with examples that prove that 2+2 doesn't always equal 4. It was astonishing, how people were twisting themselves into nonsensical positions to invent these examples.
I had forgotten all about that chapter in the insane cultural phenomenon until I found that screen shot last night.
"The “trans debate” is easily the most insane cultural phenomenon I’ve ever seen." Steve I agree fully, so I am not getting involved in it at all from a definition perspective. I am a heterosexual woman, who has been menaced far more in my lifetime by heterosexual men, not pretending to be anything else or anyone else. Here's MY definition, that I live by. (You don't have to nor does anyone else.)
Trans people are persons first, when they are genuinely transgender. Every person on the gender spectrum is a person first. That is my view. I'm sticking to it and behaving accordingly.