Being an “ally” is weird. Not only because picking an identity group and declaring yourself their online saviour (instead of just helping people who need help) is weird. But because of the dogmatic, incoherent, almost-always-mean ways people demonstrate their “ally-ship.” In 2022, being an ally means ignoring the mistakes of your side, no matter how egregious, attacking your enemies, no matter how benign, and sticking to the talking-points, no matter how dishonest you have to be to do so.
“This person has said comments that are cruel/hateful about people like me, therefore they must hate me, therefore I hate them, therefore I am justified in making cruel/hateful comments about them and people like them.” Rinse and repeat.
Chimp seemed to be more interested in trying to score points by calling you names, trawl for heresy, and deflect discussion rather than cultivating it. There is already too much of that. You have so much more patience than I have.
I think it is sometimes interesting to take a question or a seeming paradox and turn it around and make it a statement and even an axiom. Per your saying that you honestly don't understand guilt-by-association: I assume that is because it makes no sense. But it may be illuminating to give the perplexing proposition an unequivocal statement: "I believe in guilt by association. It makes sense to me." Then you have the consistent thread running through everything Chimp said. Your guilt is established by your refusal to condemn J. K. Rowling, whose guilt is established to Chimp's entire satisfaction by HER association with -- i.e., her refusal to condemn -- still OTHER people, and this in spite of her clear record supporting gay rights and even trans rights. You show great patience attempting to reason with him, but in his mind nothing you say or do can get you out from under your guilt, which is open-and-shut based on your associations.
If we contrast his absolute certainty about you with your interest in trying to understand him, we have a microcosm of the national divide and a clue to why the wrong side is winning: people are strongly attracted by narcissistic confidence and certitude.
People not only think that if you say something about an issue that they not only know the full spectrum of your thought on that issue but also on unrelated ones. If I said that I'm so pro 2nd Amendment that I think everyone should own an M-16 rifle do you think that would tell you what I think about abortion, racism, transsexuals or economic issues?
If I told you that I read the Bible from cover to cover do you think you could infer that I'm a Christian? I like Pete Seeger's music, am I a communist?
It's almost like China's social credit system, where your score goes down if you're associated with a low scoring person. Basically it's just trying to enforce a social blockade. And that's all "allyship" is.
"Ideas should be judged on their merits. Not by who else agrees with them."
Seems simple enough. I was just gonna say last paragraph, but I thought it was *so* good:
"Although ideas, like life, are like a box of chocolates. We can pick out the ones we like without touching the rest. If we prefer, we can throw out the whole box. But we shouldn’t swallow them all just because a few seem good. We shouldn’t judge them based on who else likes them. And, especially, we shouldn’t be afraid to try a new one from time to time."
It’s also part of the cancel culture, which is dangerous. It’s not allyship to go around digging in the past of a person to find that one « mistake » from an other person. It’s so exausting (sorry for the spelling mistake, i speak french!!)
The thing that's sad with Jk Rowling is they've attacked her for stating she believes for example that restrooms need to be a safe space for women and if I'm not mistaken, trans women also, and that more needs to be done to insure that.
Chimp isn't an ally, she's a bully, a fanatic and the left's equivalent of MAGA. She's the stereotypical little snowflake who goes digging and demands 100% unquestioning obedience. Cripes, these people will be holding Purity Balls next.
This is why I'm thinking of voting independent this fall rather than Democrat, as I've done my whole life. These people have taken over the party and sometimes I think Nancy Pelosi is our John McCain - an old person solely retaining critical thinking faculties. When she's gone the inmates will take over the asylum, too.
I don't want the Wokenazis in charge any more than I do the Trumpanzees. It's like Hitler (far right) vs Stalin (far left). Which dictatorship would you like to live in? Heads they win, tails we lose.
Americans are totally fucked up in their conception of what a 'white ally' is. They are solidly deluded by the racism into believing that all 'white' people are 'privileged.' In fact, it is absolutely impossible to know what kind of oppression issues any individual is struggling with. However, if they are perceptibly a POC, it's obvious they are from a group that has done a bang-up job at overcoming oppression. They have been world leaders on the subject for at least the past 150 years.
The 'white ally' is, in fact, a person who admires that quality and is hoping some of it will rub off on them. They are not there to save anyone but themselves, and are relying on the kindness of strangers to effectuate that. Unfortunately, that rarely ever happens since those people who have accomplished so much in overcoming oppression have no clue who they actually are and completely miss the boat on being the mentors they are supposed to be. They have failed to shoulder their Mission from God. Such a disappointment.
"If you didn't support homophobia and transphobia then you wouldn't go around supporting someone who does, not like they are disagreeing about something inconsequential."
I would have stopped there. As if the ridiculous opening accusation wasn't enough, the someone/they pairing remains a deal-breaker. To hell with these people.
I don’t know why you bothered. You have your view, Chimp has his/hers: never the twain shall meet.
PS the T should be taken off LGBT. The interests of the parties have diverged.
“This person has said comments that are cruel/hateful about people like me, therefore they must hate me, therefore I hate them, therefore I am justified in making cruel/hateful comments about them and people like them.” Rinse and repeat.
Chimp seemed to be more interested in trying to score points by calling you names, trawl for heresy, and deflect discussion rather than cultivating it. There is already too much of that. You have so much more patience than I have.
I think it is sometimes interesting to take a question or a seeming paradox and turn it around and make it a statement and even an axiom. Per your saying that you honestly don't understand guilt-by-association: I assume that is because it makes no sense. But it may be illuminating to give the perplexing proposition an unequivocal statement: "I believe in guilt by association. It makes sense to me." Then you have the consistent thread running through everything Chimp said. Your guilt is established by your refusal to condemn J. K. Rowling, whose guilt is established to Chimp's entire satisfaction by HER association with -- i.e., her refusal to condemn -- still OTHER people, and this in spite of her clear record supporting gay rights and even trans rights. You show great patience attempting to reason with him, but in his mind nothing you say or do can get you out from under your guilt, which is open-and-shut based on your associations.
If we contrast his absolute certainty about you with your interest in trying to understand him, we have a microcosm of the national divide and a clue to why the wrong side is winning: people are strongly attracted by narcissistic confidence and certitude.
People not only think that if you say something about an issue that they not only know the full spectrum of your thought on that issue but also on unrelated ones. If I said that I'm so pro 2nd Amendment that I think everyone should own an M-16 rifle do you think that would tell you what I think about abortion, racism, transsexuals or economic issues?
If I told you that I read the Bible from cover to cover do you think you could infer that I'm a Christian? I like Pete Seeger's music, am I a communist?
People read way too much into things.
It's almost like China's social credit system, where your score goes down if you're associated with a low scoring person. Basically it's just trying to enforce a social blockade. And that's all "allyship" is.
I believe this takes top prize for bizarre.
"Ideas should be judged on their merits. Not by who else agrees with them."
Seems simple enough. I was just gonna say last paragraph, but I thought it was *so* good:
"Although ideas, like life, are like a box of chocolates. We can pick out the ones we like without touching the rest. If we prefer, we can throw out the whole box. But we shouldn’t swallow them all just because a few seem good. We shouldn’t judge them based on who else likes them. And, especially, we shouldn’t be afraid to try a new one from time to time."
It’s also part of the cancel culture, which is dangerous. It’s not allyship to go around digging in the past of a person to find that one « mistake » from an other person. It’s so exausting (sorry for the spelling mistake, i speak french!!)
The thing that's sad with Jk Rowling is they've attacked her for stating she believes for example that restrooms need to be a safe space for women and if I'm not mistaken, trans women also, and that more needs to be done to insure that.
Chimp isn't an ally, she's a bully, a fanatic and the left's equivalent of MAGA. She's the stereotypical little snowflake who goes digging and demands 100% unquestioning obedience. Cripes, these people will be holding Purity Balls next.
This is why I'm thinking of voting independent this fall rather than Democrat, as I've done my whole life. These people have taken over the party and sometimes I think Nancy Pelosi is our John McCain - an old person solely retaining critical thinking faculties. When she's gone the inmates will take over the asylum, too.
I don't want the Wokenazis in charge any more than I do the Trumpanzees. It's like Hitler (far right) vs Stalin (far left). Which dictatorship would you like to live in? Heads they win, tails we lose.
Americans are totally fucked up in their conception of what a 'white ally' is. They are solidly deluded by the racism into believing that all 'white' people are 'privileged.' In fact, it is absolutely impossible to know what kind of oppression issues any individual is struggling with. However, if they are perceptibly a POC, it's obvious they are from a group that has done a bang-up job at overcoming oppression. They have been world leaders on the subject for at least the past 150 years.
The 'white ally' is, in fact, a person who admires that quality and is hoping some of it will rub off on them. They are not there to save anyone but themselves, and are relying on the kindness of strangers to effectuate that. Unfortunately, that rarely ever happens since those people who have accomplished so much in overcoming oppression have no clue who they actually are and completely miss the boat on being the mentors they are supposed to be. They have failed to shoulder their Mission from God. Such a disappointment.
"If you didn't support homophobia and transphobia then you wouldn't go around supporting someone who does, not like they are disagreeing about something inconsequential."
I would have stopped there. As if the ridiculous opening accusation wasn't enough, the someone/they pairing remains a deal-breaker. To hell with these people.