Yes you can. So go ahead and quote me. Don't just selectively edit a few words. Quote the sentence. If you can't (spoiler: you can't), have the decency to admit the error or become the first person I've ever banned on here.
I very much welcome diverse opinions here. I won't tolerate liars.
p.s. Why on earth do you think I wouldn't say all of this to your face? I haven't said anything rude? You're simply not actually reading what's being said. I'm a writer. I choose my words carefully.
"youтАЩre intellectually dishonest, have no curiosity, know nothing, and are racist"
Still waiting for any of this. Or the admission that actually, I didn't say any of it.
All of the above are opinions, carefully phrased to make it very clear that this is how you're coming across to me and not statements about you, who I know next to nothing about.
"Seem," "it feels as if," "I find it difficult to believe." These are words and phrases used to express impressions and feelings. They're not attacks. They're not ad hominems. And interestingly, you didn't say any of these had missed the mark.
Would you say that your behaviour here demonstrates an interest in gaining understanding?
*Have* you ever had a conversation with a black person with a genuine willingness to change your mind about race and racism? You certainly haven't with *this* black person.
How many black people have you spoken to who think it's easier to be black than white in America?
The definition of ad hominem isn't: "any comment, however accurate or polite, that challenges my thought process."
"But who hasnтАЩt truly considered that some of the pushback they receive isnтАЩt about the colour of their skin but the fact that they do have some racist attitudes."
Yep, I stand by this too. I don't think I've ever had anybody, certainly not anybody here, so unwilling to take responsibility for the things they say and simultaneously so easily offended. And anybody who is so absolutely desperate to minimise racism has some issues. Describing the treatment of black people in the sixties as "a few insults" is some of the most ignorant shit I've heard in my entire life. I don't think you're a member of the KKK. But seriously, take a look at yourself. Try that face to face with one of the "thousands" of black Americans I totally believe you've spoken to...
Alright man, I think we're done here. I'm not going to be able to reset with you. I don't think anybody has ever made such a bad impression on me in such a short space of time.ЁЯШЕ
I think Chris had the right idea. I'm not sure if you really do have good intentions and just had a really bad day today, or if you're a troll as others suspect. Either way, I'm going to ban you. Every single person you've engaged with today has the same opinion of your behaviour. So maybe have a think about that.
If you want to join again, go ahead, I won't keep track of your IP address or anything. Try a new screen name, have a fresh start, and, I don't know, be a better version of yourself.
"Again, you wouldnтАЩt have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation. We both know this. Only bad faith or ignorance could tempt you to deny it."
Are you denying that you wouldn't have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation? If so, I completely stand by this comment. If not, it's not directed at you. This isn't complicated.
How many times a day do you think Louis Armstrong was treated with disrespect simply because he was black? You look at him blowing his horn on stage and think that his daily life was like being a rock star? That he was adored everywhere he went? That people didn't still see him as a ni**er everywhere he went?
Here. This is the first result I found by typing "Louis Armstrong racism" into Google.
"I feel the downtrodden situation the same as any other Negro"
Speaking about marijuana: "It makes you forget all the bad things that happen to a Negro"
When he was criticised for speaking about segregation: "I think I have a right to get sore and say something about it."
So here, I'm going to go with ignorance. To be extremely clear, ignorance doesn't mean YOU are an ignorant person. It means there's something you're ignorant about. This is true for all of us if we have the humility to admit it.
I, for example, was ignorant of the fact that Louis had said these specific things. But I'd have bet my life's savings that he had had negative experiences of racism regularly throughout his life. I would have bet that because I'm widely enough aware of the experience of black people during that time, and the attitudes of that time, that I know no black person, no matter how prestigious or gifted they were, received the basic human respect they deserved.
People can be nostalgic for their homes without being nostalgic for their mistreatment. And I'm willing to bet no Jews are nostalgic for Auschwitz.
"I am uncomfortable speaking about segregation and the holocaust in the same breath."
Man, again, you were the one who did this. I just responded. And you only did it because you wanted to minimise the suffering black people experienced during segregation by comparing it to something totally unrelated. In all my years talking about race, I've never compared black people's experience to anything else. The oppression olympics is gross. So if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it.
I'm not saying black people aren't happy. Or even that they weren't ever happy during segregation. I'm saying that you wouldn't have wanted to endure the regular mistreatment they did back then. Especially if you knew something about it. It's so goddamned infuriating and insulting to see you describe the treatment black people received during that time as "a few insults." But again, you do this because you seem absolutely determined to minimise racism. You take the truth about racism as an attack on America. It's not. No sane person is saying things haven't changed drastically for the better. I've not condemned Americans at any point. I've just told you truths about American history that you're bizarrely unwilling to acknowledge.
God! I see that you're making at least an attempt to apologise, thank you for that. But a) I do understand the situation, very likely better than you, b) it's impossible to have a conversation if you keep getting triggered by things I haven't said.
And c) I don't care that you called me a "pom." It's kind of funny to watch you try to push my buttons and fail. I don't need you to hand out compliments. I'm not insecure. My issue wasn't the petty insults (that's why I ignored them), it was, and still is, that you've been dishonest about how you've represented me and my comments to you. I love having conversations too. Obviously. But the foundation of any productive conversation is honesty. It's the foundation of respect too. I'm still waiting for you to be honest about the fact that you misrepresented my comments. If you can't do that, there's nothing more to discuss.
You don't tell the host of the forum to go away.
"I can read your words in black and white"
Yes you can. So go ahead and quote me. Don't just selectively edit a few words. Quote the sentence. If you can't (spoiler: you can't), have the decency to admit the error or become the first person I've ever banned on here.
I very much welcome diverse opinions here. I won't tolerate liars.
p.s. Why on earth do you think I wouldn't say all of this to your face? I haven't said anything rude? You're simply not actually reading what's being said. I'm a writer. I choose my words carefully.
"youтАЩre intellectually dishonest, have no curiosity, know nothing, and are racist"
Still waiting for any of this. Or the admission that actually, I didn't say any of it.
All of the above are opinions, carefully phrased to make it very clear that this is how you're coming across to me and not statements about you, who I know next to nothing about.
"Seem," "it feels as if," "I find it difficult to believe." These are words and phrases used to express impressions and feelings. They're not attacks. They're not ad hominems. And interestingly, you didn't say any of these had missed the mark.
Would you say that your behaviour here demonstrates an interest in gaining understanding?
*Have* you ever had a conversation with a black person with a genuine willingness to change your mind about race and racism? You certainly haven't with *this* black person.
How many black people have you spoken to who think it's easier to be black than white in America?
The definition of ad hominem isn't: "any comment, however accurate or polite, that challenges my thought process."
"But who hasnтАЩt truly considered that some of the pushback they receive isnтАЩt about the colour of their skin but the fact that they do have some racist attitudes."
Yep, I stand by this too. I don't think I've ever had anybody, certainly not anybody here, so unwilling to take responsibility for the things they say and simultaneously so easily offended. And anybody who is so absolutely desperate to minimise racism has some issues. Describing the treatment of black people in the sixties as "a few insults" is some of the most ignorant shit I've heard in my entire life. I don't think you're a member of the KKK. But seriously, take a look at yourself. Try that face to face with one of the "thousands" of black Americans I totally believe you've spoken to...
Alright man, I think we're done here. I'm not going to be able to reset with you. I don't think anybody has ever made such a bad impression on me in such a short space of time.ЁЯШЕ
I think Chris had the right idea. I'm not sure if you really do have good intentions and just had a really bad day today, or if you're a troll as others suspect. Either way, I'm going to ban you. Every single person you've engaged with today has the same opinion of your behaviour. So maybe have a think about that.
If you want to join again, go ahead, I won't keep track of your IP address or anything. Try a new screen name, have a fresh start, and, I don't know, be a better version of yourself.
Let's try that again with some context shall we?
"Again, you wouldnтАЩt have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation. We both know this. Only bad faith or ignorance could tempt you to deny it."
Are you denying that you wouldn't have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation? If so, I completely stand by this comment. If not, it's not directed at you. This isn't complicated.
"Yes, I disagree."
How many times a day do you think Louis Armstrong was treated with disrespect simply because he was black? You look at him blowing his horn on stage and think that his daily life was like being a rock star? That he was adored everywhere he went? That people didn't still see him as a ni**er everywhere he went?
Here. This is the first result I found by typing "Louis Armstrong racism" into Google.
https://www.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-louis-armstrong
A couple of choice quotes:
"I feel the downtrodden situation the same as any other Negro"
Speaking about marijuana: "It makes you forget all the bad things that happen to a Negro"
When he was criticised for speaking about segregation: "I think I have a right to get sore and say something about it."
So here, I'm going to go with ignorance. To be extremely clear, ignorance doesn't mean YOU are an ignorant person. It means there's something you're ignorant about. This is true for all of us if we have the humility to admit it.
I, for example, was ignorant of the fact that Louis had said these specific things. But I'd have bet my life's savings that he had had negative experiences of racism regularly throughout his life. I would have bet that because I'm widely enough aware of the experience of black people during that time, and the attitudes of that time, that I know no black person, no matter how prestigious or gifted they were, received the basic human respect they deserved.
People can be nostalgic for their homes without being nostalgic for their mistreatment. And I'm willing to bet no Jews are nostalgic for Auschwitz.
"I am uncomfortable speaking about segregation and the holocaust in the same breath."
Man, again, you were the one who did this. I just responded. And you only did it because you wanted to minimise the suffering black people experienced during segregation by comparing it to something totally unrelated. In all my years talking about race, I've never compared black people's experience to anything else. The oppression olympics is gross. So if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it.
I'm not saying black people aren't happy. Or even that they weren't ever happy during segregation. I'm saying that you wouldn't have wanted to endure the regular mistreatment they did back then. Especially if you knew something about it. It's so goddamned infuriating and insulting to see you describe the treatment black people received during that time as "a few insults." But again, you do this because you seem absolutely determined to minimise racism. You take the truth about racism as an attack on America. It's not. No sane person is saying things haven't changed drastically for the better. I've not condemned Americans at any point. I've just told you truths about American history that you're bizarrely unwilling to acknowledge.
God! I see that you're making at least an attempt to apologise, thank you for that. But a) I do understand the situation, very likely better than you, b) it's impossible to have a conversation if you keep getting triggered by things I haven't said.
And c) I don't care that you called me a "pom." It's kind of funny to watch you try to push my buttons and fail. I don't need you to hand out compliments. I'm not insecure. My issue wasn't the petty insults (that's why I ignored them), it was, and still is, that you've been dishonest about how you've represented me and my comments to you. I love having conversations too. Obviously. But the foundation of any productive conversation is honesty. It's the foundation of respect too. I'm still waiting for you to be honest about the fact that you misrepresented my comments. If you can't do that, there's nothing more to discuss.