"Again, you wouldn’t have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation. We both know this. Only bad faith or ignorance could tempt you to deny it."
Are you denying that you wouldn't have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation? If so, I completely stand by this comment. If not, it's not directed at you. This isn't complicated.
How many times a day do you think Louis Armstrong was treated with disrespect simply because he was black? You look at him blowing his horn on stage and think that his daily life was like being a rock star? That he was adored everywhere he went? That people didn't still see him as a ni**er everywhere he went?
Here. This is the first result I found by typing "Louis Armstrong racism" into Google.
"I feel the downtrodden situation the same as any other Negro"
Speaking about marijuana: "It makes you forget all the bad things that happen to a Negro"
When he was criticised for speaking about segregation: "I think I have a right to get sore and say something about it."
So here, I'm going to go with ignorance. To be extremely clear, ignorance doesn't mean YOU are an ignorant person. It means there's something you're ignorant about. This is true for all of us if we have the humility to admit it.
I, for example, was ignorant of the fact that Louis had said these specific things. But I'd have bet my life's savings that he had had negative experiences of racism regularly throughout his life. I would have bet that because I'm widely enough aware of the experience of black people during that time, and the attitudes of that time, that I know no black person, no matter how prestigious or gifted they were, received the basic human respect they deserved.
People can be nostalgic for their homes without being nostalgic for their mistreatment. And I'm willing to bet no Jews are nostalgic for Auschwitz.
"I am uncomfortable speaking about segregation and the holocaust in the same breath."
Man, again, you were the one who did this. I just responded. And you only did it because you wanted to minimise the suffering black people experienced during segregation by comparing it to something totally unrelated. In all my years talking about race, I've never compared black people's experience to anything else. The oppression olympics is gross. So if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it.
I'm not saying black people aren't happy. Or even that they weren't ever happy during segregation. I'm saying that you wouldn't have wanted to endure the regular mistreatment they did back then. Especially if you knew something about it. It's so goddamned infuriating and insulting to see you describe the treatment black people received during that time as "a few insults." But again, you do this because you seem absolutely determined to minimise racism. You take the truth about racism as an attack on America. It's not. No sane person is saying things haven't changed drastically for the better. I've not condemned Americans at any point. I've just told you truths about American history that you're bizarrely unwilling to acknowledge.
God! I see that you're making at least an attempt to apologise, thank you for that. But a) I do understand the situation, very likely better than you, b) it's impossible to have a conversation if you keep getting triggered by things I haven't said.
And c) I don't care that you called me a "pom." It's kind of funny to watch you try to push my buttons and fail. I don't need you to hand out compliments. I'm not insecure. My issue wasn't the petty insults (that's why I ignored them), it was, and still is, that you've been dishonest about how you've represented me and my comments to you. I love having conversations too. Obviously. But the foundation of any productive conversation is honesty. It's the foundation of respect too. I'm still waiting for you to be honest about the fact that you misrepresented my comments. If you can't do that, there's nothing more to discuss.
Let's try that again with some context shall we?
"Again, you wouldn’t have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation. We both know this. Only bad faith or ignorance could tempt you to deny it."
Are you denying that you wouldn't have wanted to be a black person anywhere in America during segregation? If so, I completely stand by this comment. If not, it's not directed at you. This isn't complicated.
"Yes, I disagree."
How many times a day do you think Louis Armstrong was treated with disrespect simply because he was black? You look at him blowing his horn on stage and think that his daily life was like being a rock star? That he was adored everywhere he went? That people didn't still see him as a ni**er everywhere he went?
Here. This is the first result I found by typing "Louis Armstrong racism" into Google.
https://www.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-louis-armstrong
A couple of choice quotes:
"I feel the downtrodden situation the same as any other Negro"
Speaking about marijuana: "It makes you forget all the bad things that happen to a Negro"
When he was criticised for speaking about segregation: "I think I have a right to get sore and say something about it."
So here, I'm going to go with ignorance. To be extremely clear, ignorance doesn't mean YOU are an ignorant person. It means there's something you're ignorant about. This is true for all of us if we have the humility to admit it.
I, for example, was ignorant of the fact that Louis had said these specific things. But I'd have bet my life's savings that he had had negative experiences of racism regularly throughout his life. I would have bet that because I'm widely enough aware of the experience of black people during that time, and the attitudes of that time, that I know no black person, no matter how prestigious or gifted they were, received the basic human respect they deserved.
People can be nostalgic for their homes without being nostalgic for their mistreatment. And I'm willing to bet no Jews are nostalgic for Auschwitz.
"I am uncomfortable speaking about segregation and the holocaust in the same breath."
Man, again, you were the one who did this. I just responded. And you only did it because you wanted to minimise the suffering black people experienced during segregation by comparing it to something totally unrelated. In all my years talking about race, I've never compared black people's experience to anything else. The oppression olympics is gross. So if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it.
I'm not saying black people aren't happy. Or even that they weren't ever happy during segregation. I'm saying that you wouldn't have wanted to endure the regular mistreatment they did back then. Especially if you knew something about it. It's so goddamned infuriating and insulting to see you describe the treatment black people received during that time as "a few insults." But again, you do this because you seem absolutely determined to minimise racism. You take the truth about racism as an attack on America. It's not. No sane person is saying things haven't changed drastically for the better. I've not condemned Americans at any point. I've just told you truths about American history that you're bizarrely unwilling to acknowledge.
God! I see that you're making at least an attempt to apologise, thank you for that. But a) I do understand the situation, very likely better than you, b) it's impossible to have a conversation if you keep getting triggered by things I haven't said.
And c) I don't care that you called me a "pom." It's kind of funny to watch you try to push my buttons and fail. I don't need you to hand out compliments. I'm not insecure. My issue wasn't the petty insults (that's why I ignored them), it was, and still is, that you've been dishonest about how you've represented me and my comments to you. I love having conversations too. Obviously. But the foundation of any productive conversation is honesty. It's the foundation of respect too. I'm still waiting for you to be honest about the fact that you misrepresented my comments. If you can't do that, there's nothing more to discuss.