"I don't get pressed or aggrieved if a 4 year old tells me I'm "stupid" or my jacket is "ugly" - their evaluation means little to me, and I happen to enjoy my intellect (and jacket)"
😅 I'm aware that I'm in serious danger of becoming a bore here, but this still isn't it.
It's not that the opinion of racists doesn't matter to me. It's not …
"I don't get pressed or aggrieved if a 4 year old tells me I'm "stupid" or my jacket is "ugly" - their evaluation means little to me, and I happen to enjoy my intellect (and jacket)"
😅 I'm aware that I'm in serious danger of becoming a bore here, but this still isn't it.
It's not that the opinion of racists doesn't matter to me. It's not that they couldn't say anything to offend me or that I see them as children. It's that by attacking the colour of my skin, they're trying to offend me about something I'm completely neutral about (or if anything, which I think is a positive). The insult makes no sense.
As I said to Mark below, it's as if they're trying to attack me because of the number of creases on my palm, or the number of folds in my ear. Not only would I not be upset by these "attacks", I'd be *confused* by them. I'd very likely laugh at them.
Whereas if they attacked something I'm insecure about, as much as I might try to pretend to laugh it off, even if I was able to fool everybody into thinking I didn't care, their words would likely find a target.
At best, I think most people's ideas about dealing with the n-word are of this second type. About pretending not to be hurt. About getting good at pretending that the words didn't find their target. But I'm talking about *removing the target*. I'm talking about getting to a point where an insult based on the colour of our skin is confusing. Just as it would be for most white people.
Again, this is really the work of black people. We have to carefully examine our attitudes to this word and racist "insults" in general. But I also want white people to absorb this thinking, because people like H, though his heart is in the right place, is still approaching the n-word from a perspective of defending black people instead of pointing out how ridiculous racist beliefs are.
If you think about it, H's approach, though well intentioned, *affirms* racist ideas.
Thanks Steve - no, you're never a bore - it's always interesting to get a bit of insight into how people think. A few more replies and our dialogue will be worthy subject matter for a post, lmao. I've been the recipient of racial slurs a few times (confusingly for a few different races!), and my prior response is how I tended to frame things. However, if I am understanding you correctly, I see that there is still a pernicious fiction embedded in de-emphasizing the person wielding the imprecation instead of the so-called slur itself. My color, your color, the density and type of melanocytes per cubic centimeter in general isn't a topic worthy of insecurity, so the insult itself is confusing. It's so much happenstance, like our height, or eye color, or what have you. If it were something I had control over and felt insecure about (let's say I've got some pandemic pounds), then the derogation would have more import. I would still have the option of ignoring the person doing it, or embracing it, but that's different than what you're getting at if I grok you correctly.
"I see that there is still a pernicious fiction embedded in de-emphasizing the person wielding the imprecation instead of the so-called slur itself. My color, your color, the density and type of melanocytes per cubic centimeter in general isn't a topic worthy of insecurity, so the insult itself is confusing"
Yep! This is exactly it. To go back to H, imagine his friend was going around to people and saying, "Ha, look at you, you've got less than seven creases on your palm. You suck!"
H's instinct wouldn't be to say, "Hey! Not cool man, you can't say that!" it would be to say, "What the hell are you talking about? Do you realise how stupid you sound?!"
H's friend's hypothetical insult could *only* be offensive if the insult-ee had somehow absorbed the idea that having less than seven creases on their palm is a bad thing. And the instinct to defend them rather than ridicule his friend would *only* exist because H had absorbed those ideas too.
Now, H's friend is still trying to offend people. There's nothing wrong with telling him to stop, even if his insults aren't effective. In fact it's a good thing. But *how* we tell him to stop says a lot about our own beliefs and attitudes.
"I don't get pressed or aggrieved if a 4 year old tells me I'm "stupid" or my jacket is "ugly" - their evaluation means little to me, and I happen to enjoy my intellect (and jacket)"
😅 I'm aware that I'm in serious danger of becoming a bore here, but this still isn't it.
It's not that the opinion of racists doesn't matter to me. It's not that they couldn't say anything to offend me or that I see them as children. It's that by attacking the colour of my skin, they're trying to offend me about something I'm completely neutral about (or if anything, which I think is a positive). The insult makes no sense.
As I said to Mark below, it's as if they're trying to attack me because of the number of creases on my palm, or the number of folds in my ear. Not only would I not be upset by these "attacks", I'd be *confused* by them. I'd very likely laugh at them.
Whereas if they attacked something I'm insecure about, as much as I might try to pretend to laugh it off, even if I was able to fool everybody into thinking I didn't care, their words would likely find a target.
At best, I think most people's ideas about dealing with the n-word are of this second type. About pretending not to be hurt. About getting good at pretending that the words didn't find their target. But I'm talking about *removing the target*. I'm talking about getting to a point where an insult based on the colour of our skin is confusing. Just as it would be for most white people.
Again, this is really the work of black people. We have to carefully examine our attitudes to this word and racist "insults" in general. But I also want white people to absorb this thinking, because people like H, though his heart is in the right place, is still approaching the n-word from a perspective of defending black people instead of pointing out how ridiculous racist beliefs are.
If you think about it, H's approach, though well intentioned, *affirms* racist ideas.
Thanks Steve - no, you're never a bore - it's always interesting to get a bit of insight into how people think. A few more replies and our dialogue will be worthy subject matter for a post, lmao. I've been the recipient of racial slurs a few times (confusingly for a few different races!), and my prior response is how I tended to frame things. However, if I am understanding you correctly, I see that there is still a pernicious fiction embedded in de-emphasizing the person wielding the imprecation instead of the so-called slur itself. My color, your color, the density and type of melanocytes per cubic centimeter in general isn't a topic worthy of insecurity, so the insult itself is confusing. It's so much happenstance, like our height, or eye color, or what have you. If it were something I had control over and felt insecure about (let's say I've got some pandemic pounds), then the derogation would have more import. I would still have the option of ignoring the person doing it, or embracing it, but that's different than what you're getting at if I grok you correctly.
"I see that there is still a pernicious fiction embedded in de-emphasizing the person wielding the imprecation instead of the so-called slur itself. My color, your color, the density and type of melanocytes per cubic centimeter in general isn't a topic worthy of insecurity, so the insult itself is confusing"
Yep! This is exactly it. To go back to H, imagine his friend was going around to people and saying, "Ha, look at you, you've got less than seven creases on your palm. You suck!"
H's instinct wouldn't be to say, "Hey! Not cool man, you can't say that!" it would be to say, "What the hell are you talking about? Do you realise how stupid you sound?!"
H's friend's hypothetical insult could *only* be offensive if the insult-ee had somehow absorbed the idea that having less than seven creases on their palm is a bad thing. And the instinct to defend them rather than ridicule his friend would *only* exist because H had absorbed those ideas too.
Now, H's friend is still trying to offend people. There's nothing wrong with telling him to stop, even if his insults aren't effective. In fact it's a good thing. But *how* we tell him to stop says a lot about our own beliefs and attitudes.
Really appreciate the exchange. Thank you.