Last week, a friend who follows my writing, pointed out that “progressives” have been the target of a lot of my ire recently. And it’s true. The reason being, and I can’t stress this enough, that I have nothing but the purest, white-hot disdain for what passes for “progressive” in 2022. It’s not just that I disagree with progressive talking points (although I often do), it’s not just that the rhetoric is meaningless, self-serving performance art (although it often is), it’s that today’s “progressives” are constantly centring themselves over the communities they’re supposed to be supporting.
I feel much the same as you here, Steve. Those we call progressives have sunk into the same sort of rigid conformity and orthodoxy as the other side. I believe this is what the other side calls "virtue signaling," showing that neologisms are an affliction at both poles.
But it's not new. The enlightened anti-racists in JFK's time were proud of themselves if they allowed a black person in their house. The bigotry was muted but it was still there.
I'm finding today's symmetries between the two poles to be increasingly disturbing. "Trump won" is no more absurd than "A man who declares one day that he's now a woman *is* a woman." Go against either in your respective group and you're anathema and blocked on social media.
This is not what I signed up for.
Yes Our Side is more open to a breadth of opinions but this orthodoxy seems to be more and more widespread.
"I'm finding today's symmetries between the two poles to be increasingly disturbing"
Yep, absolutely. If it's any consolation, it seems to be a symmetry between two fairly small fringes. Most republicans don't believe Trump won. Most Democrats don't believe men can magically transform into women.
The problem, as this excellent study pointed out years ago (https://hiddentribes.us/media/qfpekz4g/hidden_tribes_report.pdf), is that the silent majority allows the idiots on the left and the right to do all the talking, and therefore, steer the conversation.
Topically enough, this is what's happening with abortion rights, where ~80% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in at least some cases, and the <20% who don't are increasingly getting their way because they're louder and more determined when it counts.
I've read repeatedly that 70% of Republicans—ALL Republicans—believe Trump won the 2020 election. And these are responsible sources, not one coin-flipper being quote and requoted.
And while I see some variation in support for the pro-choice position I have never seen it as high as 80%
Closest I could find for the Trump claim is that 59% of Republicans think it's "important to believe that Trump won" Which is truly fascinating framing!😅 I'd love to see how the poll was designed and find out how they arrived at that wording.
I don't think you have a problem with true progressives; you have a problem with the Regressives, who style themselves progressives but have married the victim narratives (all of them!) and live in constant fear that some marginalized person somewhere might exercise some actual empowerment and responsibility.
I have as much disdain for those who self-/infantilize black people as well as those who do the same for feminism. You're fighting for genuine black pride (in yourselves, in your accomplishments) and I'm doing the same for women - who will need all the strength and personal power they can muster now that their body autonomy rights are about to fly out the window.
"I don't think you have a problem with true progressives; you have a problem with the Regressives, who style themselves progressives but have married the victim narratives"
Yeah, honestly I'm having trouble teasing one kind of "progressive" apart from the other at the moment.😅
Also very much attached to the label "progressive" in my mind are the people who are too afraid to tell the truth for fear of losing virtue signalling points, so they just repeat whatever nonsense is popular at any given moment. I can respect sincerity, even if I strongly disagree with the views held, but all too often, I find myself talking to people who don't even believe the things they're saying. They're just saying them out of pure self-interest.
p.s. I'm not fighting for black pride. I'm fighting to kill the idea that any word; pride, pain, love, power, etc. needs to be prefixed with the word "black" or "white." We're all just people.
Yeah, there's a lot of lapdogging going on I think because people are afraid to speak out, or don't know how to effectively defend their intelligent, rational, but highly unpopular positions. Also, there's a fear of getting cancelled - the left-wing version of an armed 'protester' at a city hall meeting. Maybe they're afraid of being on the 'wrong' side of history even as they must know deep down the secular fundamentalist nonsense coming from the wokenazis will fall like the house of cards all hateful, ideological positions are. This is what *I'm* fighting for...helping those of us closer to the centre (from either side) find the language and the courage to challenge and speak out against left-wing extremism (much easier when it's not your own, n'est-ce pas? I never cared what Republicans and Christian fundamentalists thought of me when I fought them in the US). Unfortunately, the left has become as vicious as the right.
'Regressive Left' was coined by ex-Islamist Maajid Nawaz in 2006 to describe lefties who condemned white men/Republicans/Christians of misogynist, homophobic, racist, terrorist beliefs, values and practices, while ignoring them from Islamic extremists. It's since evolved to include any left-wing position in which one ignores what is done to others by 'disadvantaged' groups to others. Like believing that white skin is original sin, whereas they reject the Curse of Ham :) These are the ones who think we don't have the 'right' to 'force' our 'imperialist, colonialist' practices or values on other peoples whose practices and values may differ greatly from ours. So they'll ignore or refuse to condemn FGM in Africans, Middle Easterners, and Indians (esp as they've all be colonized at one point or another by Europeans), while they'd lose their shit if Donald Trump suggested or a Republican politician introduced legislation to make it legal for American parents to cut their daughters.
But, it's good enough for little brown and black girls elsewhere, I guess. (No, no racism to see here...please move along...!)
It's one thing to criticize the hijab and another to legislate it - the hijab doesn't poses no threat to personal safety and really is a personal choice, whereas FGM shouldn't be if you believe in the equality and safety of *all* human beings, even if some cultures don't share those views. Part of the reason why slavery went away in the US is because we were getting a lot of pressure from Europe to do it - they'd all gotten abolished it already. (Canada did in 1809).
I know you're not fighting for black pride. We both get that pride is for accomplishments, and even though none of us are colour-blind, it's what we should be striving for....kinda like What Would Jesus Do.
If they actually listened to them they might need to reconsider a lot of things. It feels so good to know you’re right - why should a little honest dialogue get in the way? I can’t stand the virtue signaling. The hypocrisy is palpable.
I forget the source, but the phrase ‘seek first to understand, then to be understood’ strikes me as the real necessity. Open ears and hearts.
In a nutshell: “Society benefits when the maximum number of human beings are living the best possible life, and this should be the goal. The end.”
How about this for practical? I'm just spit-balling but that's where all great ideas start. If there is cultural damage due to slavery or prejudice or exclusion, then let's brainstorm how to fix that.
1. Work on persuading the black community that education isn't white, that it is the thing that expands your universe, your options, and your possibilities - even your very humanity. Billboards? Websites? Other types of advertising? Use pithy slogans. How about: Don't hate, create! Too direct? (too bad because I own the domains for this slogan but have never had the time to build the website and media for a campaign plus I need a writer). How about: Get your mind on. How about: What do you wish you knew? I could go on. If these positive challenge messages surround black youth enough they will be influenced and over time their perceptions would change. Maybe they would begin to fight for themselves.
2. Provide free education for low-income people - whether in academia or trades - as a form of reparations.
3. How about a hotline - Ask me anything - that allows black youth to call a number and ask questions privately?
4. How about a problem-solving class using real-world examples that would build these skills in black youth or even adults?
5. How about free cooking classes? Free handy man classes? Free classes in anything that a parent typically teaches but which wisdom black youth don't receive because their parents are either working 3 jobs, drugged out, or otherwise unavailable to teach them. Create self-sufficiency and pride in oneself.
5. Provide free trauma therapy for anyone living in a poverty dominant zip code.
6. Provide free quality of life, money management, and/or family planning classes.
We could channel money into any of the above and get better results. These are just rough ideas and of course it would be challenging because - details. Plus, not everyone would participate, even at first. But some would. And as the successes mounted, it would spread. Also, some efforts would fail. But, good ideas have a way of achieving critical mass over time.
I'd rather see any of these initiatives tried than what's out there right now. Although, to be fair, there are some grassroots efforts that are having some success - see 1776unites.org for examples. Fund more of whatever is working.
Ignorance amplifies bias and leads us to make bad choices. We have to open ourselves up to new information if we want to better our situation. I don't see why we can't find a way to do at least some of the above of some of something else (don't care if it's my ideas just that it works). Just throwing money at the problem hasn't helped. Perhaps our approach needs to be more curated.
Most of my ideas are about teaching someone to have faith in themselves. I was a victim, I was hurt, I lost faith in myself. The way back was for me to lean on other people's faith in me until I could restore my own faith in myself. They had faith in me because I showed up and did the work. That's what it takes.
"I'd rather see any of these initiatives tried than what's out there right now. Although, to be fair, there are some grassroots efforts that are having some success"
Yeah, these are all good ideas, and as you say here, I think grassroots campaigns are really important because they can be better tailored to the communities in question and they have the advantage of being carried out by people who know the community and are personally invested in its success.
On a broader, more sociological level, I'd love to see less glamorisation of black criminality in music and in films (I think it's hard to overstate the impact this has on some black people's psychology and some white people's perception of black people), less "blaccents" from black characters, and more positive, intellectual black role models whose blackness isn't treated as a novelty or a talking point. Put smart black people in front of cameras, let them talk about their field of expertise, don't turn the story to racial issues or ask their opinion on the racial "scandal du jour".
I agree, black people, young black people especially, need to be taught to have faith in themselves. And also to believe that the world is for them as much as anybody else. There is sooo much messaging insisting that it's only for white people and in 2022, this is pretty much completely untrue.
Equality in education is achievable by decree but 55 years after civil rights we still don't have it. I'd bet that the policymakers who short-change black schools aren't even aware they're doing it sometimes.
But the other classes you mentioned are almost certain to fail because they require candor in admitting to problems and you need to overcome that before anyone will sign up. I foresee financial management classes with one or two students in the room. Getting people to avail themselves of this kind of help would require a massive public information campaign. It would need hard-hitting ads delivered by people who look and sound like their audience, and we don't have that many Maxine Waters,
The stigma against education is crippling. I remember in the USA going to visit a Vietnamese family; it was a Saturday night and the kids ranging from elementary to high school were all sitting at a table studying with their father there encouraging them. It didn't appear forced. OTOH this isn't all that common here in Vietnam.
From the sound of things a black student who studied diligently would be regarded as some kind of weirdo. That is so wrong.
Parental involvement is critical. With each of my daughters on different occasions I had to teach the math lessons to make them comprehensible to them. While living in Saudi Arabia in the 80s (international school) I was informed that one of my daughters was far behind in learning her multiplication tables. I wrote a math game on a Commodore 64 which made it fun. She mastered all of her times tables before the other students.
When we adopted our orphaned niece a gave her an ABC Elmo doll to play with on the flight to America. The Thai language does not share our alphabet. First year, I did her homework, explaining with my broken Thai while she helped. Second year, she did the homework and I helped. Her English was already better than my Thai. Third year I checked her work. She was getting together with the other Asian girls from her school to study.
Having a parent capable of helping is huge. Having a study ethic is huge. My daughters had a double whammy. My thing was, don't come home with a report that you were capable of better. I didn't expect perfection, just honest effort. Their Asia mother expected A's. Motivation and help when needed.
The thing is, what if your parents have two jobs or you have one parent? I was a poor child of a single mother, I get it. What if your subculture doesn't value study and striving for good grades? Can a disadvantaged child go against the bad odds of poverty and a toxic subculture? Some do. If you are my age, going into the military was a way out. If you didn't get killed in Vietnam, you may have received technical training and there was a GI bill which gave education assistance, so your student loans were more manageable. I saw a bunch of that. It worked wonders for a lot of young black men in particular.
Schools have been fully integrated for a long time. I went to a vocational non-neighborhood high school where I was the racial minority before integration was common. There were black kids from the projects there to learn a trade so they could get a decent job. When my children came along, we lived in Georgia where there was no bussing because the neighborhood was integrated. My children went to the same schools with the same teachers and books. The only inequality was perhaps in the home. I realize in big cities where there was white flight the schools are not the same or equal, but there is no universal inequity by race, but rather by locale.
I don't write that to point a finger of damnation at anyone, but how do we fix "why you studyin'? You tryin' to be white?", "Math is racist" and other crabs in a barrel horseshit? Some of that is straight out of social justice warriors who infantize black people. SJWs need to do some self-examination. Are they venting or trying to solve a problem? Why try if you think the system won't let you succeed? I know that people want to go on and on about the system, but does putting that in young people's head help or harm? Can government or money fix this, or must we? If we are going to, we must do better.
It's not wrong. It's just not optimal. It's reactionary and dysfunctional and gets in the way of solving the problem.
Maybe your cynical take is true but we still have to try. I know there are human beings in poverty culture who haven't given up and would welcome something hopeful. Maybe only 5%, let's say. But if we help that 5% and they are able to bloom, that might inspire others.
And, if you don't like my ideas, how about we canvas the black community to get their ideas about what they feel would work? How about create a coalition or partnership of majoritarian money partnered with black cultural insight to develop a path forward?
One thing's for sure. Sitting around and wringing our hands or slinging barbs at each other has gotten us nowhere. And just throwing cash at it hasn't worked either. We need some creativity to solve this problem. We need to figure out what would spark people into caring about their lives again.
You can't move people from complaining and feeling helpless to a commitment of time and energy like taking classes, even if the classes are free. It's a good idea but it has to be done in a series of steps. Starting with convincing people that they can take some control over their own lives.
Well, then maybe start with that free therapy idea. Or free possibility seminars. I get where you are coming from but we have to hold space for possibility if we want to see change.
You have good ideas, Lightwing. I'll copy them to Word, on the slight chance that I can find them later.
I would add that Bob Woodson's other project gets right down into the inner cities and gets things *done!* https://woodsoncenter.org/
The problem is that the Woke Religion *owns* pretty much all the institutions in America. And it's their creed to elevate the victim narrative above all else, and virtue signalling as the means and the ends.
As Chris Fox "says" below, a change in a lotta aspects of the culture is probably gonna be required. That's a project over a generation or so. All that to say... It's why it would be best to start *now,* but that is not gonna be easy because "the Powers that Be" are gonna be *against* solving problems.
If there weren't problems, then there'd be nothing for them to do with their lives, right? Not just the virtue signalers, either. Who wants to give up the power and money in the DEI grift? I read the Industry is $6 BILLIONs worth a money.
IMO, it's probably gonna take a new political party to make much progress in the short term. I know.. I know... And ICBW, of course.
Thanks, JT. And yes, I have donated to his org several times. He is inspiring good work and there are some heavy hitters supporting him like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. I hope that the work he is doing gets amplified and multiplied.
Right on point again, Steve! And great comments from the gang here, as usual.
I feel like we've made a multi-generational wrong turn (in the Anglophone world at least), and it saddens me. Today the neo-progressives have worked themselves way out an a limb of abstract and effete symbolism and virtue signaling with very little traction on real world problems. They are so far gone that the only thing they can imagine to address their lack of progress is to double down on the same weak strategy, on purity of dogmatism, and on eviscerating liberal democracy. There is now a self-perpetuating machine for converting good will and positive intentions into tribalism and unproductive conflict, and it's extremely resistant to any reform.
I read something a while back asking people about their ideal future world. The folks we might label as "woke" spoke not about peace, harmony, cooperation, human fulfilment, and opportunities; their vision was primarily one of ongoing conflict where their side was continuing to win by uniting all the oppressed into permanent struggle. What that cued me into is that people can get so addicted to The Struggle itself that they don't spend much time or emotional energy on how they want people to live well together - instead investing their imaginations into struggling forever to overthrow and suppress the cishetropatriarchy of white males as their end goal, their ideal society.
Or in short, fighting oppression is more engaging then actually ending oppression would be. If the current oppressions were somehow banished, others need to be created to keep the war going.
And if they accidentally succeeded, their core skillsets would immediately be turned on defeating the other coalition partners, because their toolkit is weak on cooperation, reciprocal rights, collaborative governance, conflict de-escalation, and win/win orientation in general. All swords and no plowshares. Without the fantasy of a perpetual shared enemy, it collapses into betrayals and infighting. The skills and mindsets needed for tearing down are different than those for building up. Valorizing zealotry does not beget cooperation and collaboration.
And yet, at least currently, most neo-progressives are starting with very positive motives. They want diversity (except of viewpoint) and inclusion (_of only the right people, with vigorously exclusion of the rest_) and equity (of outcomes, no matter how much discrimination of opportunity is needed to achieve that).
A while back, it struck me that "diversity is strength" is nonsense in a conflict-centric world, where it's a huge and usually violent problem; diversity is only a strength within a structure of collaboration and cooperation, where there is trust and a shared commitment to integrating the best ideas from diverse sources for shared benefits.
Regarding the original observation about focusing on problems with "progressives", I think that one of the factors which makes many of the folks here focus so much on neo-progressives is the frustration of seeing a potentially positive source of energy for creating a better world get hijacked into dogmatic conformity to a strategy leading more towards collapse than betterment. Or in other words: IT DOESN'T NEED TO GO THAT WAY! We see people with initial values similar to ours get taken over by a mind virus that points them in a counterproductive direction in many cases. Compared to, say, a committed white supremacist, whose self-perceived needs and desires are so different that traditional liberal progressivism has no good responses. So we get bothered when we see folks whose psychology once would have inspired them to move towards the minimization of race as a factor, today be channeled into perpetual race consciousness and unending conflict as the path to liberation.
"There is now a self-perpetuating machine for converting good will and positive intentions into tribalism and unproductive conflict,"
Oof! That is a slam-dunk right there! Yes indeed, that's a perfect way to put it.
And while I said the "performance" is the whole game for too many people, the "struggle" is also the game for a whole bunch of others (although you could argue that the "struggle" is part of the performance. I've spoken to so many middle-class, well educated, privileged millennial who talks as if they're living through the Watts riots).
I have a conversation coming up soon that goes a little deeper on this point, but basically, some people have come to define themselves so totally by their "oppression" that they can't bear to let it go.
Baldwin really at the center of matters again, no surprise. I'll never forget the closing of "a fire next time" where he laments the political fiction of "race" and muses whether or not we'll ever be able to accept that. (paraphrasing)
Thank you - yes, I have Sheena's book on pre-order. Personally I'm a mix and opted out of the great American race game a few years ago. The recent trend of pumping race into everything has only confirmed this decision for me. I hope others get on board, but failing that, at least honestly examine what they mean when they say "race" (vs ethnicity, heritage, color, etc) and what they hope to get out of it. I honestly haven't seen a situation where invocation of "race" has improved society anywhere over the globe. Maybe there are cases - most of the time when the concept is invoked it just goes south.
Yes. We have to find common ground to create a more just world. The fact that we are all human is that common ground. We mostly all respond the same to kindness, compassion, generosity, fair play and their opposites. I think we are all more alike than we are different. There is lots of money to be made out of division though.
FBT is the bomb. It's so good (although they don't publish super frequently). I subscribed to support them. Its founder, Erec Smith, is on the Board of Advisors for FAIR (fairforall.org), a pro-humanist org fighting the excesses of identarian and woke culture. I am a pro-humanist liberal and I hope to see a world based on universal humanism come into being. I donate to them whenever I can and am considering joining. They are an amazing group that has burgeoned into well over 100 chapters in a little over a year. It's just hard because I have a biz and also am on a board of directors for women's issues and I have so little time. Ah, well. Perhaps I can clone myself one of these days. ;-)
I read a book by M. Smith, and thought he was misguided in a few points, but I like him a *lot.* And, yeah, I joined FAIR and gave them a pretty good chunk last year. Things a little tighter this year. I haven't joined a chapter because I'm not muchuva joiner. Probably should do something to get me off-a my arse.
But, then, I've got 1,000 books in my library that I'd like to read. (Haha! Not in *this* lifetime!) Ah well... I'm just *very lucky* that I'm retired and can't be canceled. Nice "talking" Lightwing.
Not much of a "joiner" myself outside of my entrepreneurial focus. Who is M. Smith?
Also, I am not in complete alignment with 1776unites.org. They are somewhat religiously based - which I respect people's choice on - but I am NOT religious and had to hold my nose a bit. I am a woman and obviously I don't identify with much in Xtianity when it comes to the lack of empowerment (and sometimes outright disdain) for women in that doctrine. Some churches are worse than others but all pretty much tacitly agree that women have a certain role on this planet. I disagree strongly on this point. My biology should not determine my destiny.
That said, identarian ideology has become an object lesson on the fact that people need some type of belief system to stay grounded. In some ways, I'd almost rather have Xtianity than woke because at least Xtianity includes the concept of redemption.
Regardless, the work that 1776unites.org is doing is good work. It is rebuilding broken people and communities and even if I am not 100% aligned ideologically, I can still support the effort. I am pro anything that makes broken people whole again. I've walked that path. I know better than most what it's like to rebuild your life when you've been pushed into the abyss.
Good luck on the reading. One chapter at a time. You will get there. I can't wait to retire. Nice "talking" to you as well. I've appreciated your support for my comments on multiple boards over the past year. You do get around... ;-)
Yeah, it's a lot easier to get around virtually. Did You see latest FBT on SEL by M. Smith and his partner in crime? (Forgot his name, and can't find the tab. M. Littleton mebbe?) Another good 'un.
I feel much the same as you here, Steve. Those we call progressives have sunk into the same sort of rigid conformity and orthodoxy as the other side. I believe this is what the other side calls "virtue signaling," showing that neologisms are an affliction at both poles.
But it's not new. The enlightened anti-racists in JFK's time were proud of themselves if they allowed a black person in their house. The bigotry was muted but it was still there.
I'm finding today's symmetries between the two poles to be increasingly disturbing. "Trump won" is no more absurd than "A man who declares one day that he's now a woman *is* a woman." Go against either in your respective group and you're anathema and blocked on social media.
This is not what I signed up for.
Yes Our Side is more open to a breadth of opinions but this orthodoxy seems to be more and more widespread.
"I'm finding today's symmetries between the two poles to be increasingly disturbing"
Yep, absolutely. If it's any consolation, it seems to be a symmetry between two fairly small fringes. Most republicans don't believe Trump won. Most Democrats don't believe men can magically transform into women.
The problem, as this excellent study pointed out years ago (https://hiddentribes.us/media/qfpekz4g/hidden_tribes_report.pdf), is that the silent majority allows the idiots on the left and the right to do all the talking, and therefore, steer the conversation.
Topically enough, this is what's happening with abortion rights, where ~80% of Americans believe abortion should be legal in at least some cases, and the <20% who don't are increasingly getting their way because they're louder and more determined when it counts.
I've read repeatedly that 70% of Republicans—ALL Republicans—believe Trump won the 2020 election. And these are responsible sources, not one coin-flipper being quote and requoted.
And while I see some variation in support for the pro-choice position I have never seen it as high as 80%
The 80% figure is from a recent Gallup poll (https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx). Again, this is support for the idea that abortion should be legal in at least some cases.
Closest I could find for the Trump claim is that 59% of Republicans think it's "important to believe that Trump won" Which is truly fascinating framing!😅 I'd love to see how the poll was designed and find out how they arrived at that wording.
I don't think you have a problem with true progressives; you have a problem with the Regressives, who style themselves progressives but have married the victim narratives (all of them!) and live in constant fear that some marginalized person somewhere might exercise some actual empowerment and responsibility.
I have as much disdain for those who self-/infantilize black people as well as those who do the same for feminism. You're fighting for genuine black pride (in yourselves, in your accomplishments) and I'm doing the same for women - who will need all the strength and personal power they can muster now that their body autonomy rights are about to fly out the window.
"I don't think you have a problem with true progressives; you have a problem with the Regressives, who style themselves progressives but have married the victim narratives"
Yeah, honestly I'm having trouble teasing one kind of "progressive" apart from the other at the moment.😅
Also very much attached to the label "progressive" in my mind are the people who are too afraid to tell the truth for fear of losing virtue signalling points, so they just repeat whatever nonsense is popular at any given moment. I can respect sincerity, even if I strongly disagree with the views held, but all too often, I find myself talking to people who don't even believe the things they're saying. They're just saying them out of pure self-interest.
p.s. I'm not fighting for black pride. I'm fighting to kill the idea that any word; pride, pain, love, power, etc. needs to be prefixed with the word "black" or "white." We're all just people.
Yeah, there's a lot of lapdogging going on I think because people are afraid to speak out, or don't know how to effectively defend their intelligent, rational, but highly unpopular positions. Also, there's a fear of getting cancelled - the left-wing version of an armed 'protester' at a city hall meeting. Maybe they're afraid of being on the 'wrong' side of history even as they must know deep down the secular fundamentalist nonsense coming from the wokenazis will fall like the house of cards all hateful, ideological positions are. This is what *I'm* fighting for...helping those of us closer to the centre (from either side) find the language and the courage to challenge and speak out against left-wing extremism (much easier when it's not your own, n'est-ce pas? I never cared what Republicans and Christian fundamentalists thought of me when I fought them in the US). Unfortunately, the left has become as vicious as the right.
'Regressive Left' was coined by ex-Islamist Maajid Nawaz in 2006 to describe lefties who condemned white men/Republicans/Christians of misogynist, homophobic, racist, terrorist beliefs, values and practices, while ignoring them from Islamic extremists. It's since evolved to include any left-wing position in which one ignores what is done to others by 'disadvantaged' groups to others. Like believing that white skin is original sin, whereas they reject the Curse of Ham :) These are the ones who think we don't have the 'right' to 'force' our 'imperialist, colonialist' practices or values on other peoples whose practices and values may differ greatly from ours. So they'll ignore or refuse to condemn FGM in Africans, Middle Easterners, and Indians (esp as they've all be colonized at one point or another by Europeans), while they'd lose their shit if Donald Trump suggested or a Republican politician introduced legislation to make it legal for American parents to cut their daughters.
But, it's good enough for little brown and black girls elsewhere, I guess. (No, no racism to see here...please move along...!)
It's one thing to criticize the hijab and another to legislate it - the hijab doesn't poses no threat to personal safety and really is a personal choice, whereas FGM shouldn't be if you believe in the equality and safety of *all* human beings, even if some cultures don't share those views. Part of the reason why slavery went away in the US is because we were getting a lot of pressure from Europe to do it - they'd all gotten abolished it already. (Canada did in 1809).
I know you're not fighting for black pride. We both get that pride is for accomplishments, and even though none of us are colour-blind, it's what we should be striving for....kinda like What Would Jesus Do.
Steve,
If they actually listened to them they might need to reconsider a lot of things. It feels so good to know you’re right - why should a little honest dialogue get in the way? I can’t stand the virtue signaling. The hypocrisy is palpable.
I forget the source, but the phrase ‘seek first to understand, then to be understood’ strikes me as the real necessity. Open ears and hearts.
" It feels so good to know you’re right - why should a little honest dialogue get in the way?"
😅 EXACTLY! God, you just described about 60% of my conversations.
In a nutshell: “Society benefits when the maximum number of human beings are living the best possible life, and this should be the goal. The end.”
How about this for practical? I'm just spit-balling but that's where all great ideas start. If there is cultural damage due to slavery or prejudice or exclusion, then let's brainstorm how to fix that.
1. Work on persuading the black community that education isn't white, that it is the thing that expands your universe, your options, and your possibilities - even your very humanity. Billboards? Websites? Other types of advertising? Use pithy slogans. How about: Don't hate, create! Too direct? (too bad because I own the domains for this slogan but have never had the time to build the website and media for a campaign plus I need a writer). How about: Get your mind on. How about: What do you wish you knew? I could go on. If these positive challenge messages surround black youth enough they will be influenced and over time their perceptions would change. Maybe they would begin to fight for themselves.
2. Provide free education for low-income people - whether in academia or trades - as a form of reparations.
3. How about a hotline - Ask me anything - that allows black youth to call a number and ask questions privately?
4. How about a problem-solving class using real-world examples that would build these skills in black youth or even adults?
5. How about free cooking classes? Free handy man classes? Free classes in anything that a parent typically teaches but which wisdom black youth don't receive because their parents are either working 3 jobs, drugged out, or otherwise unavailable to teach them. Create self-sufficiency and pride in oneself.
5. Provide free trauma therapy for anyone living in a poverty dominant zip code.
6. Provide free quality of life, money management, and/or family planning classes.
We could channel money into any of the above and get better results. These are just rough ideas and of course it would be challenging because - details. Plus, not everyone would participate, even at first. But some would. And as the successes mounted, it would spread. Also, some efforts would fail. But, good ideas have a way of achieving critical mass over time.
I'd rather see any of these initiatives tried than what's out there right now. Although, to be fair, there are some grassroots efforts that are having some success - see 1776unites.org for examples. Fund more of whatever is working.
Ignorance amplifies bias and leads us to make bad choices. We have to open ourselves up to new information if we want to better our situation. I don't see why we can't find a way to do at least some of the above of some of something else (don't care if it's my ideas just that it works). Just throwing money at the problem hasn't helped. Perhaps our approach needs to be more curated.
Most of my ideas are about teaching someone to have faith in themselves. I was a victim, I was hurt, I lost faith in myself. The way back was for me to lean on other people's faith in me until I could restore my own faith in myself. They had faith in me because I showed up and did the work. That's what it takes.
"I'd rather see any of these initiatives tried than what's out there right now. Although, to be fair, there are some grassroots efforts that are having some success"
Yeah, these are all good ideas, and as you say here, I think grassroots campaigns are really important because they can be better tailored to the communities in question and they have the advantage of being carried out by people who know the community and are personally invested in its success.
On a broader, more sociological level, I'd love to see less glamorisation of black criminality in music and in films (I think it's hard to overstate the impact this has on some black people's psychology and some white people's perception of black people), less "blaccents" from black characters, and more positive, intellectual black role models whose blackness isn't treated as a novelty or a talking point. Put smart black people in front of cameras, let them talk about their field of expertise, don't turn the story to racial issues or ask their opinion on the racial "scandal du jour".
I agree, black people, young black people especially, need to be taught to have faith in themselves. And also to believe that the world is for them as much as anybody else. There is sooo much messaging insisting that it's only for white people and in 2022, this is pretty much completely untrue.
Equality in education is achievable by decree but 55 years after civil rights we still don't have it. I'd bet that the policymakers who short-change black schools aren't even aware they're doing it sometimes.
But the other classes you mentioned are almost certain to fail because they require candor in admitting to problems and you need to overcome that before anyone will sign up. I foresee financial management classes with one or two students in the room. Getting people to avail themselves of this kind of help would require a massive public information campaign. It would need hard-hitting ads delivered by people who look and sound like their audience, and we don't have that many Maxine Waters,
The stigma against education is crippling. I remember in the USA going to visit a Vietnamese family; it was a Saturday night and the kids ranging from elementary to high school were all sitting at a table studying with their father there encouraging them. It didn't appear forced. OTOH this isn't all that common here in Vietnam.
From the sound of things a black student who studied diligently would be regarded as some kind of weirdo. That is so wrong.
Parental involvement is critical. With each of my daughters on different occasions I had to teach the math lessons to make them comprehensible to them. While living in Saudi Arabia in the 80s (international school) I was informed that one of my daughters was far behind in learning her multiplication tables. I wrote a math game on a Commodore 64 which made it fun. She mastered all of her times tables before the other students.
When we adopted our orphaned niece a gave her an ABC Elmo doll to play with on the flight to America. The Thai language does not share our alphabet. First year, I did her homework, explaining with my broken Thai while she helped. Second year, she did the homework and I helped. Her English was already better than my Thai. Third year I checked her work. She was getting together with the other Asian girls from her school to study.
Having a parent capable of helping is huge. Having a study ethic is huge. My daughters had a double whammy. My thing was, don't come home with a report that you were capable of better. I didn't expect perfection, just honest effort. Their Asia mother expected A's. Motivation and help when needed.
The thing is, what if your parents have two jobs or you have one parent? I was a poor child of a single mother, I get it. What if your subculture doesn't value study and striving for good grades? Can a disadvantaged child go against the bad odds of poverty and a toxic subculture? Some do. If you are my age, going into the military was a way out. If you didn't get killed in Vietnam, you may have received technical training and there was a GI bill which gave education assistance, so your student loans were more manageable. I saw a bunch of that. It worked wonders for a lot of young black men in particular.
Schools have been fully integrated for a long time. I went to a vocational non-neighborhood high school where I was the racial minority before integration was common. There were black kids from the projects there to learn a trade so they could get a decent job. When my children came along, we lived in Georgia where there was no bussing because the neighborhood was integrated. My children went to the same schools with the same teachers and books. The only inequality was perhaps in the home. I realize in big cities where there was white flight the schools are not the same or equal, but there is no universal inequity by race, but rather by locale.
I don't write that to point a finger of damnation at anyone, but how do we fix "why you studyin'? You tryin' to be white?", "Math is racist" and other crabs in a barrel horseshit? Some of that is straight out of social justice warriors who infantize black people. SJWs need to do some self-examination. Are they venting or trying to solve a problem? Why try if you think the system won't let you succeed? I know that people want to go on and on about the system, but does putting that in young people's head help or harm? Can government or money fix this, or must we? If we are going to, we must do better.
It's not wrong. It's just not optimal. It's reactionary and dysfunctional and gets in the way of solving the problem.
Maybe your cynical take is true but we still have to try. I know there are human beings in poverty culture who haven't given up and would welcome something hopeful. Maybe only 5%, let's say. But if we help that 5% and they are able to bloom, that might inspire others.
And, if you don't like my ideas, how about we canvas the black community to get their ideas about what they feel would work? How about create a coalition or partnership of majoritarian money partnered with black cultural insight to develop a path forward?
One thing's for sure. Sitting around and wringing our hands or slinging barbs at each other has gotten us nowhere. And just throwing cash at it hasn't worked either. We need some creativity to solve this problem. We need to figure out what would spark people into caring about their lives again.
You can't move people from complaining and feeling helpless to a commitment of time and energy like taking classes, even if the classes are free. It's a good idea but it has to be done in a series of steps. Starting with convincing people that they can take some control over their own lives.
Well, then maybe start with that free therapy idea. Or free possibility seminars. I get where you are coming from but we have to hold space for possibility if we want to see change.
You have good ideas, Lightwing. I'll copy them to Word, on the slight chance that I can find them later.
I would add that Bob Woodson's other project gets right down into the inner cities and gets things *done!* https://woodsoncenter.org/
The problem is that the Woke Religion *owns* pretty much all the institutions in America. And it's their creed to elevate the victim narrative above all else, and virtue signalling as the means and the ends.
As Chris Fox "says" below, a change in a lotta aspects of the culture is probably gonna be required. That's a project over a generation or so. All that to say... It's why it would be best to start *now,* but that is not gonna be easy because "the Powers that Be" are gonna be *against* solving problems.
If there weren't problems, then there'd be nothing for them to do with their lives, right? Not just the virtue signalers, either. Who wants to give up the power and money in the DEI grift? I read the Industry is $6 BILLIONs worth a money.
IMO, it's probably gonna take a new political party to make much progress in the short term. I know.. I know... And ICBW, of course.
Thanks, JT. And yes, I have donated to his org several times. He is inspiring good work and there are some heavy hitters supporting him like Glenn Loury and John McWhorter. I hope that the work he is doing gets amplified and multiplied.
Right on point again, Steve! And great comments from the gang here, as usual.
I feel like we've made a multi-generational wrong turn (in the Anglophone world at least), and it saddens me. Today the neo-progressives have worked themselves way out an a limb of abstract and effete symbolism and virtue signaling with very little traction on real world problems. They are so far gone that the only thing they can imagine to address their lack of progress is to double down on the same weak strategy, on purity of dogmatism, and on eviscerating liberal democracy. There is now a self-perpetuating machine for converting good will and positive intentions into tribalism and unproductive conflict, and it's extremely resistant to any reform.
I read something a while back asking people about their ideal future world. The folks we might label as "woke" spoke not about peace, harmony, cooperation, human fulfilment, and opportunities; their vision was primarily one of ongoing conflict where their side was continuing to win by uniting all the oppressed into permanent struggle. What that cued me into is that people can get so addicted to The Struggle itself that they don't spend much time or emotional energy on how they want people to live well together - instead investing their imaginations into struggling forever to overthrow and suppress the cishetropatriarchy of white males as their end goal, their ideal society.
Or in short, fighting oppression is more engaging then actually ending oppression would be. If the current oppressions were somehow banished, others need to be created to keep the war going.
And if they accidentally succeeded, their core skillsets would immediately be turned on defeating the other coalition partners, because their toolkit is weak on cooperation, reciprocal rights, collaborative governance, conflict de-escalation, and win/win orientation in general. All swords and no plowshares. Without the fantasy of a perpetual shared enemy, it collapses into betrayals and infighting. The skills and mindsets needed for tearing down are different than those for building up. Valorizing zealotry does not beget cooperation and collaboration.
And yet, at least currently, most neo-progressives are starting with very positive motives. They want diversity (except of viewpoint) and inclusion (_of only the right people, with vigorously exclusion of the rest_) and equity (of outcomes, no matter how much discrimination of opportunity is needed to achieve that).
A while back, it struck me that "diversity is strength" is nonsense in a conflict-centric world, where it's a huge and usually violent problem; diversity is only a strength within a structure of collaboration and cooperation, where there is trust and a shared commitment to integrating the best ideas from diverse sources for shared benefits.
Regarding the original observation about focusing on problems with "progressives", I think that one of the factors which makes many of the folks here focus so much on neo-progressives is the frustration of seeing a potentially positive source of energy for creating a better world get hijacked into dogmatic conformity to a strategy leading more towards collapse than betterment. Or in other words: IT DOESN'T NEED TO GO THAT WAY! We see people with initial values similar to ours get taken over by a mind virus that points them in a counterproductive direction in many cases. Compared to, say, a committed white supremacist, whose self-perceived needs and desires are so different that traditional liberal progressivism has no good responses. So we get bothered when we see folks whose psychology once would have inspired them to move towards the minimization of race as a factor, today be channeled into perpetual race consciousness and unending conflict as the path to liberation.
"There is now a self-perpetuating machine for converting good will and positive intentions into tribalism and unproductive conflict,"
Oof! That is a slam-dunk right there! Yes indeed, that's a perfect way to put it.
And while I said the "performance" is the whole game for too many people, the "struggle" is also the game for a whole bunch of others (although you could argue that the "struggle" is part of the performance. I've spoken to so many middle-class, well educated, privileged millennial who talks as if they're living through the Watts riots).
I have a conversation coming up soon that goes a little deeper on this point, but basically, some people have come to define themselves so totally by their "oppression" that they can't bear to let it go.
Baldwin really at the center of matters again, no surprise. I'll never forget the closing of "a fire next time" where he laments the political fiction of "race" and muses whether or not we'll ever be able to accept that. (paraphrasing)
Some are actually working on this: https://freeblackthought.substack.com/p/theory-of-racelessness-a-case-for?s=r
Thank you - yes, I have Sheena's book on pre-order. Personally I'm a mix and opted out of the great American race game a few years ago. The recent trend of pumping race into everything has only confirmed this decision for me. I hope others get on board, but failing that, at least honestly examine what they mean when they say "race" (vs ethnicity, heritage, color, etc) and what they hope to get out of it. I honestly haven't seen a situation where invocation of "race" has improved society anywhere over the globe. Maybe there are cases - most of the time when the concept is invoked it just goes south.
Yes. We have to find common ground to create a more just world. The fact that we are all human is that common ground. We mostly all respond the same to kindness, compassion, generosity, fair play and their opposites. I think we are all more alike than we are different. There is lots of money to be made out of division though.
TY. I hope to reread, and catch up on all the comments I missed. I had no idea of all the back-and-forth with the author and also "FBT," too.
FBT is the bomb. It's so good (although they don't publish super frequently). I subscribed to support them. Its founder, Erec Smith, is on the Board of Advisors for FAIR (fairforall.org), a pro-humanist org fighting the excesses of identarian and woke culture. I am a pro-humanist liberal and I hope to see a world based on universal humanism come into being. I donate to them whenever I can and am considering joining. They are an amazing group that has burgeoned into well over 100 chapters in a little over a year. It's just hard because I have a biz and also am on a board of directors for women's issues and I have so little time. Ah, well. Perhaps I can clone myself one of these days. ;-)
I read a book by M. Smith, and thought he was misguided in a few points, but I like him a *lot.* And, yeah, I joined FAIR and gave them a pretty good chunk last year. Things a little tighter this year. I haven't joined a chapter because I'm not muchuva joiner. Probably should do something to get me off-a my arse.
But, then, I've got 1,000 books in my library that I'd like to read. (Haha! Not in *this* lifetime!) Ah well... I'm just *very lucky* that I'm retired and can't be canceled. Nice "talking" Lightwing.
Not much of a "joiner" myself outside of my entrepreneurial focus. Who is M. Smith?
Also, I am not in complete alignment with 1776unites.org. They are somewhat religiously based - which I respect people's choice on - but I am NOT religious and had to hold my nose a bit. I am a woman and obviously I don't identify with much in Xtianity when it comes to the lack of empowerment (and sometimes outright disdain) for women in that doctrine. Some churches are worse than others but all pretty much tacitly agree that women have a certain role on this planet. I disagree strongly on this point. My biology should not determine my destiny.
That said, identarian ideology has become an object lesson on the fact that people need some type of belief system to stay grounded. In some ways, I'd almost rather have Xtianity than woke because at least Xtianity includes the concept of redemption.
Regardless, the work that 1776unites.org is doing is good work. It is rebuilding broken people and communities and even if I am not 100% aligned ideologically, I can still support the effort. I am pro anything that makes broken people whole again. I've walked that path. I know better than most what it's like to rebuild your life when you've been pushed into the abyss.
Good luck on the reading. One chapter at a time. You will get there. I can't wait to retire. Nice "talking" to you as well. I've appreciated your support for my comments on multiple boards over the past year. You do get around... ;-)
Sorry. Monsieur Erec Smith.
Yeah, it's a lot easier to get around virtually. Did You see latest FBT on SEL by M. Smith and his partner in crime? (Forgot his name, and can't find the tab. M. Littleton mebbe?) Another good 'un.
One-a *the* best, Steve. And I love Adam B. Coleman. Read his book and everything at https://wrongspeak.net/
Love the comments by Chris Fox, Nicole Chardenet and Jen. Will leave brief remark on Lightwings. Just a quick thank You, is all.
Thanks J!