You’re mighty casual with the risks to women, Frank.
What makes you think that Bruce Jenner isn’t? He’s admitted paraphilias involving *his own daughters*, they commonly cluster with others, often more dangerous.
You’re mighty casual with the risks to women, Frank.
What makes you think that Bruce Jenner isn’t? He’s admitted paraphilias involving *his own daughters*, they commonly cluster with others, often more dangerous.
Is it that he’s a hero to you? Deshawn Watson …
Is it that he seems nice? Ted Bundy …
It is *true* that some TIMs pass some of the time. And even that a few pass most of the time.
That doesn’t excuse your desire to extend a privilege to males in general (or at all).
Just as you ask how I’d “police” it, I ask you: are there going to be “passing police”?
How are women to know which TIMs have been certified as passing, or “safe”, and which haven’t?
The only answer is:
Hold all males accountable to the same rules. No XY in XX.
Enforce the laws we have, instead of excusing some subset of males that you (and if not you, who?) thinks women should be forced to accept in their private spaces.
And stop telling women what and who they should accept from males. Is that a clear enough response for you, Frank?
besides, passing in appearance doesn't make them "safe" it just means they didn't start with a super masculine frame. Not so common, given that boys are often identifiable in the cradle by their shape
It's clear what you believe, and I respect your right to believe it. I just disagree with that being a helpful or useful perspective. I see it as too black-vs-white given the realities of the human condition.
And you really don't answer the question about how your complete restriction on any XY entering a restroom for females gets policed.
Clearly the gestational process of gender development in the womb is fraught with diverse results that include gender dysphoria. In some cases there is genital ambiguity. But even without that, there can be other internal brain development that leads to sex identity dysphoria. And if those people transition, I don't see how restricting them from using a restroom matching their transitioned-to gender is a threat to anyone.
Frankly, I think what we need is construction code that makes all multi-person commercial restrooms unisex without urinals and with floor-to-ceiling lockable-from-the-inside stalls and no door into the restroom.
Frank, you’re every bit of a mansplaining tool as Steve.
Listen to some fucking women.
You don’t see how it’s a threat … because
you don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
And you would like to solve this with construction codes: have you read a damn thing about the research and realities of such spaces and how they put women and girls at greater risks than single sex facilities?
You’re quite the pair, and you caught me on an angry day.
I’m going to show a bunch of folks how callous and hubristic you are too.
“ And you would like to solve this with construction codes: have you read a damn thing about the research and realities of such spaces and how they put women and girls at greater risks than single sex facilities?”
I’d actually be very interested in seeing this research if you could stop screeching and insulting for long enough to share it.
I listen to my wife of 42 years, and she agrees with me. Keep biological men out of women's restrooms, but not those with diagnosed gender dysphoria that have been medically transitioned. She agrees that the only way to police it is by the appearance of the person.
Like I said, I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Frankly, because I am, it is a bit weird that anyone would fear the sex intentions of a biological male that is medically transitioned to a female identity.
You don't seem to understand the construction code point, but it might be over your head.
why the f*ck should biological women have to avoid public bathrooms for women? what would you suggest they do? piss themselves? never go out? wear nappies? Just so that some mentally ill man can use the ladies room?? you disgust me
Let me try again: it is incorrect to treat DSD or any ambiguous genitalia patient as equivalent in any way to Gender Dysphoria. GD patients have zero physical abnormality or impairment. Whereas a baby with DSD may well have external genitalia that are completely opposite of their sex chromosomes (although this type is sooo extremely rare as to be insignificant). The most common type of DSD is 21-hydroxylase deficiency form of Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. A boy with this is straight up just a boy. A girl with this IS masculinized to varying extents - and they still know they’re girls. GD is all in someone’s mind.
Honestly applied empathy and logic typically lead to the same conclusion as the stats I give elsewhere. Try this...
Imagine living as a woman: 1 in 4 have experienced rape, and 99% sexual aggression to a greater or lesser degree, all the while conscious of an extraordinary strength differential rendering us vulnerable to any one male who tries it on.
Men really seem to struggle to imagine this, so here's a useful analogy...:
You're given a large bag of Maltesers. The vast majority are lovely. But a few of them will make you ill enough to remember the experience for life (these represent abusive experiences stopping just short of attack; we've almost all had these, and many of us remember one when that realisation of our own utter vulnerability hit, and hit hard). Meanwhile, one Malteser in the bag - just one - is cyanide. That would be the violent attacker, whether he's downright evil or mundanely opportunistic. Do you take and eat a Malteser, Frank?
Mixed sex spaces remove women's freedom to mitigate - and get some relief from - the risk we face.
you hit the nail on the head. When all the malteasers look the same, how do you know which one will kill you? you don't- so best not to eat any of them
Those are fake stats from the feminist hive. No, 25% have NOT experienced rape. And 99% experiencing some male attracted to them... wow... that is profound... TRIGGER!
What men are struggling with these days is why the hell they would want a relationship with any female that thinks and acts like you do. Thankfully for you they make good vibrators, porn is free and you can be a vagitarian with all the rights of a married person... just without being able to realize your dream of loving a real dick.
What I find hilarious... generally the females with your views tend to be on the unattractive scale. I have often wondered if adopted radical feminism and misandry is just anger over lack of romantic attention.
You can appear soured and dip ever closer to ad hominem attacks, or you can acknowledge that it is reasonable for women to have places of safety where they can let down their guard whilst performing vulnerable tasks.
Your arguments, when weighed against the need for safety, are comparative luxuries as per Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Please be fair.
NB. These proportions are reflected in corresponding statistics in various other nations.
You could also look into: research into levels of post-transition male violence and the variety of reasons for transitioning including AGP (on the latter, there are some very good firsthand accounts by medically transitioned transwomen eg. Debbie Hayton).
"And if those people transition, I don't see how restricting them from using a restroom matching their transitioned-to gender is a threat to anyone." I can see how, but only if the data shows it. Numerous studies have analyzed the prevalence of violent crime of transwomen and also of the overall male population. The data on crime and violent crime by transwomen has been tracked since at least 1973, studied within many countries, and then restudied. Data exists! Assuming you know the data exists and that you have examined it, are you suggesting that transwomen exhibit the same threat to women as other women do? Because that would have to be your conclusion from the data in order to make your statement. Have you examined the crime and violence data in regards to transwomen? It is possible to turn "I don't see" into an informed opinion, but 'seeing' might complicate your solidarity with trans-freedom.
Just how it was policed for the last 80 or so years since women were allowed to walk further than the shop because they were finally granted a public toilet for themselves only …
You’re mighty casual with the risks to women, Frank.
What makes you think that Bruce Jenner isn’t? He’s admitted paraphilias involving *his own daughters*, they commonly cluster with others, often more dangerous.
Is it that he’s a hero to you? Deshawn Watson …
Is it that he seems nice? Ted Bundy …
It is *true* that some TIMs pass some of the time. And even that a few pass most of the time.
That doesn’t excuse your desire to extend a privilege to males in general (or at all).
Just as you ask how I’d “police” it, I ask you: are there going to be “passing police”?
How are women to know which TIMs have been certified as passing, or “safe”, and which haven’t?
The only answer is:
Hold all males accountable to the same rules. No XY in XX.
Enforce the laws we have, instead of excusing some subset of males that you (and if not you, who?) thinks women should be forced to accept in their private spaces.
And stop telling women what and who they should accept from males. Is that a clear enough response for you, Frank?
besides, passing in appearance doesn't make them "safe" it just means they didn't start with a super masculine frame. Not so common, given that boys are often identifiable in the cradle by their shape
It's clear what you believe, and I respect your right to believe it. I just disagree with that being a helpful or useful perspective. I see it as too black-vs-white given the realities of the human condition.
And you really don't answer the question about how your complete restriction on any XY entering a restroom for females gets policed.
Clearly the gestational process of gender development in the womb is fraught with diverse results that include gender dysphoria. In some cases there is genital ambiguity. But even without that, there can be other internal brain development that leads to sex identity dysphoria. And if those people transition, I don't see how restricting them from using a restroom matching their transitioned-to gender is a threat to anyone.
Frankly, I think what we need is construction code that makes all multi-person commercial restrooms unisex without urinals and with floor-to-ceiling lockable-from-the-inside stalls and no door into the restroom.
Frank, you’re every bit of a mansplaining tool as Steve.
Listen to some fucking women.
You don’t see how it’s a threat … because
you don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
And you would like to solve this with construction codes: have you read a damn thing about the research and realities of such spaces and how they put women and girls at greater risks than single sex facilities?
You’re quite the pair, and you caught me on an angry day.
I’m going to show a bunch of folks how callous and hubristic you are too.
Enjoy, Frank.
“ And you would like to solve this with construction codes: have you read a damn thing about the research and realities of such spaces and how they put women and girls at greater risks than single sex facilities?”
I’d actually be very interested in seeing this research if you could stop screeching and insulting for long enough to share it.
I listen to my wife of 42 years, and she agrees with me. Keep biological men out of women's restrooms, but not those with diagnosed gender dysphoria that have been medically transitioned. She agrees that the only way to police it is by the appearance of the person.
Like I said, I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Frankly, because I am, it is a bit weird that anyone would fear the sex intentions of a biological male that is medically transitioned to a female identity.
You don't seem to understand the construction code point, but it might be over your head.
But your wife doesn't have the right to give consent for other women.
Wish I could upvote this more.
Well just stay the hell out of public bathrooms. Problem solved.
why the f*ck should biological women have to avoid public bathrooms for women? what would you suggest they do? piss themselves? never go out? wear nappies? Just so that some mentally ill man can use the ladies room?? you disgust me
What's the alternative if you are afraid of Kaitlin Jenner?
I think Franky boys a bit of an autogynephile fancier!!
Let me try again: it is incorrect to treat DSD or any ambiguous genitalia patient as equivalent in any way to Gender Dysphoria. GD patients have zero physical abnormality or impairment. Whereas a baby with DSD may well have external genitalia that are completely opposite of their sex chromosomes (although this type is sooo extremely rare as to be insignificant). The most common type of DSD is 21-hydroxylase deficiency form of Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. A boy with this is straight up just a boy. A girl with this IS masculinized to varying extents - and they still know they’re girls. GD is all in someone’s mind.
Honestly applied empathy and logic typically lead to the same conclusion as the stats I give elsewhere. Try this...
Imagine living as a woman: 1 in 4 have experienced rape, and 99% sexual aggression to a greater or lesser degree, all the while conscious of an extraordinary strength differential rendering us vulnerable to any one male who tries it on.
Men really seem to struggle to imagine this, so here's a useful analogy...:
You're given a large bag of Maltesers. The vast majority are lovely. But a few of them will make you ill enough to remember the experience for life (these represent abusive experiences stopping just short of attack; we've almost all had these, and many of us remember one when that realisation of our own utter vulnerability hit, and hit hard). Meanwhile, one Malteser in the bag - just one - is cyanide. That would be the violent attacker, whether he's downright evil or mundanely opportunistic. Do you take and eat a Malteser, Frank?
Mixed sex spaces remove women's freedom to mitigate - and get some relief from - the risk we face.
you hit the nail on the head. When all the malteasers look the same, how do you know which one will kill you? you don't- so best not to eat any of them
Those are fake stats from the feminist hive. No, 25% have NOT experienced rape. And 99% experiencing some male attracted to them... wow... that is profound... TRIGGER!
What men are struggling with these days is why the hell they would want a relationship with any female that thinks and acts like you do. Thankfully for you they make good vibrators, porn is free and you can be a vagitarian with all the rights of a married person... just without being able to realize your dream of loving a real dick.
What I find hilarious... generally the females with your views tend to be on the unattractive scale. I have often wondered if adopted radical feminism and misandry is just anger over lack of romantic attention.
You can appear soured and dip ever closer to ad hominem attacks, or you can acknowledge that it is reasonable for women to have places of safety where they can let down their guard whilst performing vulnerable tasks.
Your arguments, when weighed against the need for safety, are comparative luxuries as per Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Please be fair.
If you ever see this, Frank, perhaps in future try prioritising facts over a comically patronising tone. It would come across better.
Please also share the below with your wife, so she can make informed judgements, too...:
Comparisons of official MOJ statistics from March / April 2019 (most recent official count of transgender prisoners):
76 sex offenders out of 129 transwomen = 58.9%
125 sex offenders out of 3812 women in prison = 3.3%
13234 sex offenders out of 78781 men in prison =
16.8%
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/
NB. These proportions are reflected in corresponding statistics in various other nations.
You could also look into: research into levels of post-transition male violence and the variety of reasons for transitioning including AGP (on the latter, there are some very good firsthand accounts by medically transitioned transwomen eg. Debbie Hayton).
https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/
"And if those people transition, I don't see how restricting them from using a restroom matching their transitioned-to gender is a threat to anyone." I can see how, but only if the data shows it. Numerous studies have analyzed the prevalence of violent crime of transwomen and also of the overall male population. The data on crime and violent crime by transwomen has been tracked since at least 1973, studied within many countries, and then restudied. Data exists! Assuming you know the data exists and that you have examined it, are you suggesting that transwomen exhibit the same threat to women as other women do? Because that would have to be your conclusion from the data in order to make your statement. Have you examined the crime and violence data in regards to transwomen? It is possible to turn "I don't see" into an informed opinion, but 'seeing' might complicate your solidarity with trans-freedom.
Just how it was policed for the last 80 or so years since women were allowed to walk further than the shop because they were finally granted a public toilet for themselves only …
I agree, all bathrooms should be single person use only