"And I, too, care nothing about what consenting adults choose to do with each other - although I will admit the self-mutilating trans stuff gives me pause." Yeah, I think this is the line a lot of people bump into in various ways. I have to admit that I can't help feeling sad when a healthy woman chops of her breasts or a healthy man cho…
"And I, too, care nothing about what consenting adults choose to do with each other - although I will admit the self-mutilating trans stuff gives me pause."
Yeah, I think this is the line a lot of people bump into in various ways.
I have to admit that I can't help feeling sad when a healthy woman chops of her breasts or a healthy man chops of his penis and they engage in this pretence that they're the opposite sex. Even if I don't know them. I can't help wishing there were a better way for them to accept themselves for who and what they are. But I'd still fight for their right to do it. Adults should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies, regardless of what I or anybody else thinks about it.
But this thinking simply cannot apply to children. In order to protect children, we have to agree on an age where they don't get to make serious, life-altering decisions. 16-18 seems to work pretty well for all kinds of things. So anybody who thinks this boundary is too high (or shouldn't exist at all) should have to give a clear, detailed and *very public* explanation as to why they need access to children younger than that.
"Adults should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies"
I can't agree with an absolutist expression like this. Why do we have laws against suicide? Kurt Cobain killed himself because his girlfriend dumped him. I think we have responsibility to each other to step in and help those we care about instead of shrugging it off as "it's his body to do what he wants."
Take gender transitioning. The satisfaction and fulfillment of the sliced turns out to be a huge lie; a lot of the "trans" cult is made of people (kids) who have a lot of problems but as soon as "trans" comes up the other existing conditions recede to invisibility and transition is supposed to fix everything. Most them end up more miserable than before and the tyranny of the "trans" activists guarantees that we won't hear about that. I don't know if you've seen Affirmation Generation but they report that post-transition suicide is nineteen times the demographically matched statistic.
As for alternatives, psychiatric counseling has proven to be more effective, though it will be a long time getting off the ground in America where surgical transitioning is good for $70,000 and the activists are so strident about locking kids into the "trans" club, screaming louder and louder that puberty is too late.
And then there's BIID, where people want a healthy limb amputated because they have this idea that it's just an encumbrance. I think to take the "shrug" attitude toward that is irresponsible.
Would you hire someone who broadcast that he was a troublemaker like this? I would discard any résumé with any pronoun pairs. Such an employee is going to be nothing but trouble
Do we?! A law against suicide seems kind of redundant, no? I think suicide is widely seen as a moral wrong, but I'm not clear on its legality.
But yes, I agree with you, at least in principle. I think people should be able to do what they want with their bodies, but I also think we should try to help people make healthy decisions. We shouldn't pretend there aren't clearly better or worse choices, whether we're talking about diet, exercise, plastic surgery or surgical transition.
I also think we should take into account people's mental health when they're making major, life-altering decisions. Removing your sex organs is drastic and permanent, so of course, there should be a careful psychological assessment. Definitely no argument there.
But I think it should require the most extraordinary circumstances to deny somebody the right to do what they want after that process is completed. Even if we personally feel the decision is a mistake. The desire to do something we think is weird can't be held up, in and of itself, as evidence that the person is mentally incompetent. That's a dangerous path to go down.
Personally I sort of believe in Vonnegut's Monkey House, where suicide can be achieved by choice but only after serious counseling and I don't mean a single 30-minute perfunctory interview.
I had a friend in Seattle, a close friend, black and gay, one of my few sex partners I saw socially. He liked to go to the clandestine cruising ground and give blowjobs. All the time. This was mostly while I was away for four years, when I returned to Seattle I learned he had died a month before.
I remain angry to this day that nobody sat down with him and said, "Michael you really need to stop this, a lot of those men have HIV and you are eventually going to get it and die."
I'll risk friendships telling people they need to quit smoking or quit drinking so much. I expect people to do the same for me if I'm out of line, though I have none of the common vices.
And, yes, in the end people make their own choices but I think we tend to shrug off their bad choices as "not my problem" way too readily.
"And, yes, in the end people make their own choices but I think we tend to shrug off their bad choices as "not my problem" way too readily."
Yep, sadly I think you're dead right about this. We also see it reflected in the culture of people whipping out their phones and recording instead of helping or even calling for help when somebody is being beaten up or some other preventable wrong is happening right in from of them.
If others are already calling 911 I support videos of what's going on. It can hold perps accountable and make it easier for the cops to nab him or her, and provide documentary evidence in court that s/he did do the crime.
I remember suicide being illegal in the USA but that seems to have vanished, possibly because of the absurdity when successful and the cruelty when not.
"And I, too, care nothing about what consenting adults choose to do with each other - although I will admit the self-mutilating trans stuff gives me pause."
Yeah, I think this is the line a lot of people bump into in various ways.
I have to admit that I can't help feeling sad when a healthy woman chops of her breasts or a healthy man chops of his penis and they engage in this pretence that they're the opposite sex. Even if I don't know them. I can't help wishing there were a better way for them to accept themselves for who and what they are. But I'd still fight for their right to do it. Adults should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies, regardless of what I or anybody else thinks about it.
But this thinking simply cannot apply to children. In order to protect children, we have to agree on an age where they don't get to make serious, life-altering decisions. 16-18 seems to work pretty well for all kinds of things. So anybody who thinks this boundary is too high (or shouldn't exist at all) should have to give a clear, detailed and *very public* explanation as to why they need access to children younger than that.
"Adults should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies"
I can't agree with an absolutist expression like this. Why do we have laws against suicide? Kurt Cobain killed himself because his girlfriend dumped him. I think we have responsibility to each other to step in and help those we care about instead of shrugging it off as "it's his body to do what he wants."
Take gender transitioning. The satisfaction and fulfillment of the sliced turns out to be a huge lie; a lot of the "trans" cult is made of people (kids) who have a lot of problems but as soon as "trans" comes up the other existing conditions recede to invisibility and transition is supposed to fix everything. Most them end up more miserable than before and the tyranny of the "trans" activists guarantees that we won't hear about that. I don't know if you've seen Affirmation Generation but they report that post-transition suicide is nineteen times the demographically matched statistic.
As for alternatives, psychiatric counseling has proven to be more effective, though it will be a long time getting off the ground in America where surgical transitioning is good for $70,000 and the activists are so strident about locking kids into the "trans" club, screaming louder and louder that puberty is too late.
And then there's BIID, where people want a healthy limb amputated because they have this idea that it's just an encumbrance. I think to take the "shrug" attitude toward that is irresponsible.
Good news from the backlash front: https://notthebee.com/article/new-report-says-resumes-using-the-pronouns-theythem-are-more-likely-to-be-overlooked-by-employers
Would you hire someone who broadcast that he was a troublemaker like this? I would discard any résumé with any pronoun pairs. Such an employee is going to be nothing but trouble
"Why do we have laws against suicide?"
Do we?! A law against suicide seems kind of redundant, no? I think suicide is widely seen as a moral wrong, but I'm not clear on its legality.
But yes, I agree with you, at least in principle. I think people should be able to do what they want with their bodies, but I also think we should try to help people make healthy decisions. We shouldn't pretend there aren't clearly better or worse choices, whether we're talking about diet, exercise, plastic surgery or surgical transition.
I also think we should take into account people's mental health when they're making major, life-altering decisions. Removing your sex organs is drastic and permanent, so of course, there should be a careful psychological assessment. Definitely no argument there.
But I think it should require the most extraordinary circumstances to deny somebody the right to do what they want after that process is completed. Even if we personally feel the decision is a mistake. The desire to do something we think is weird can't be held up, in and of itself, as evidence that the person is mentally incompetent. That's a dangerous path to go down.
Personally I sort of believe in Vonnegut's Monkey House, where suicide can be achieved by choice but only after serious counseling and I don't mean a single 30-minute perfunctory interview.
I had a friend in Seattle, a close friend, black and gay, one of my few sex partners I saw socially. He liked to go to the clandestine cruising ground and give blowjobs. All the time. This was mostly while I was away for four years, when I returned to Seattle I learned he had died a month before.
I remain angry to this day that nobody sat down with him and said, "Michael you really need to stop this, a lot of those men have HIV and you are eventually going to get it and die."
I'll risk friendships telling people they need to quit smoking or quit drinking so much. I expect people to do the same for me if I'm out of line, though I have none of the common vices.
And, yes, in the end people make their own choices but I think we tend to shrug off their bad choices as "not my problem" way too readily.
"And, yes, in the end people make their own choices but I think we tend to shrug off their bad choices as "not my problem" way too readily."
Yep, sadly I think you're dead right about this. We also see it reflected in the culture of people whipping out their phones and recording instead of helping or even calling for help when somebody is being beaten up or some other preventable wrong is happening right in from of them.
If others are already calling 911 I support videos of what's going on. It can hold perps accountable and make it easier for the cops to nab him or her, and provide documentary evidence in court that s/he did do the crime.
I remember suicide being illegal in the USA but that seems to have vanished, possibly because of the absurdity when successful and the cruelty when not.
There are countries where the attempt is illegal: https://www.understandsuicide.com/_files/ugd/2caebd_62c53227c2784fd5ae5d3833321e7d62.pdf but any such question has a hotline as the first answer.
I wonder if any cop ever put handcuffs on a corpse.