You keep on writing about this issue as if I'm unaware of the complexities of it. Or as if I'm unaware of the stories you're mentioning. I can promise you I'm not. I've been researching this for a good four years at this point. I promise I'm paying at least as much attention as you are.
Transition doesn't mean sexual reassignment surgery. It can apply to any degree of social transition or even, in the case of prisons, no transition at all. It's policies like those that I'm arguing very strongly against. You don't need to tell me the importance of women's spaces, I've been arguing for preserving them since I first started writing about trans issues. But I'm looking for a standard of womanhood that is reasonable for trans people who are genuinely suffering from gender dysphoria.
Full sexual reassignment, as in removal of testes and penis, seems to be a reasonable standard to me. First, that's a reasonable measure for whether somebody is genuinely dysphoric. Second, without testes, male aggression decreases significantly (we see this in all animal species, of course, it's why we neuter dogs). And third, it changes the character of sexual abuse completely. Women can and very occasionally do assault other women. But the lack of a penis and male strength make it a completely different issue.
As for how to tell what degree of transition somebody has undergone, it depends on the space you're talking about.
For bathrooms, I suggest we do exactly what we do now, which is appraise people based on how masculine/feminine they look. Women already find themselves challenged in bathrooms sometimes if they look too butch. There's a fair chance you've already shared a bathroom with a trans woman. Ands it's almost certain that you've been around a trans woman and not realised. Nobody checks genitals right now to see if you can get into a bathroom, they simply look at your face and if you're feminine looking enough they don't challenge it.
For sport, I think we should be able to look at medical history. Elite athletes already undergo drug tests, why should sex tests be any different?
For legal recognition as a woman (as in having "F" on your birth certificate), I think you should have to undergo sex reassignment for reasons laid out above. No regular genital checks necessary, that's all taken care of during the application process. If you don't want that surgery, you are recognised as a trans woman, but not as a female.
If you want to access a rape crisis centre for example, they should absolutely have to verify whether you're female or male. Most crisis centres offer services for trans women, I think that's a good thing. But they should also offer services exclusively for females.
You're arguing against overly permissive regulations for trans inclusion. I am too. I can't understand how you're not seeing that. Every word I've ever written on the topic is in support of women's right to have their own spaces and of the fact that including men in female spaces just because they say "I'm a woman" is irresponsible, dangerous and deeply misogynistic. I've argued specifically against selfID in pretty much every article I've ever written. Don't mistake a desire for nuance and a consideration for people with genuine dysphoria as a failure to understand the issues.
I detect some annoyance in your tone, and I suppose the way I expressed my arguments made you think I was accusing you of stuff. I'm not. We are both arguing against over permissive regulations for trans inclusion, great! I guess I thought I could be angry and bitch about this, as someone who is not allowed to refer at herself with her own language, and who is now a subsection of her own sex category (cis and trans, right?). And of course I shared toilets with transgender women, I am even friends with a few. They are perfectly reasonable, and understand all of our concerns, including why I hate to call them women (I also commiserate when they say they hate NOT to be called women; in some ways, though, women instinctively know that once you have allowed that degree of impersonation, their complete erasure is just a matter of time - call it "surviving instinct"). They also understand how much of a slippery slope this whole issue has become, from erasing women as a sex category in law, to allowing males to dominate women's sports, to the self-ID madness. So we are on the same page, all good. Keep doing what you do.
тАЬI guess I thought I could be angry and bitch about this, as someone who is not allowed to refer at herself with her own language, and who is now a subsection of her own sex category (cis and trans, right?)тАЭ
Yeah exactly. Of course, you have every right to be angry. IтАЩm angry! But it sounded as if you were angry with *me*, or assuming I was ignorant because I тАЬdonтАЩt deal with this every day.тАЭ
Actually, as itтАЩs my name on the articles I write, I do deal with abuse very regularly. The amount of racism in my comments and especially DMs is a sight to behold. And IтАЩm also risking a chunk of my income writing about it. Medium has banned many writers for saying anything that isnтАЩt wholly pro-trans.
So yeah, I guess I just didnтАЩt appreciate what I took to be an implication that I donтАЩt care as much. Or that I havenтАЩt thought about the issues carefully. IтАЩm a man, but that doesnтАЩt mean I donтАЩt care deeply about this issue.
I acknowledge that some of us are deeply emotional about this and we can come across as unreasonable and even abusive. How can we not? Heck, my own son went to college with his reason intact, and came back home after one semester chanting slogans and telling me to stop being "obsessive" about "this shit" because "transwomen just want to pee". I tried to have a conversation with him based on logic only (who can???), and we agreed that "gender" was invented to keep women in their place (usually kitchen and bedroom), and that "gender doesn't exist", but "sex" does (as in "there are immutable biological differences between females and males"), but all went dramatically south from there! Because as soon as I said "in this case what does 'transgender' mean, since gender doesn't exist? How does one transition from one gender to another without reinforcing the idea that there are two genders, and they are not expressing sexual differences, but superficial ideas we have about women and men? (based on logic, right????)" he declared this "line of questioning" transphobic and retreated to his bedroom. He doesn't do that for absolutely anything else. It is frightening to see young people become cultish, and when they are your own children it feels like the world is going to implode tomorrow.
But, anyway, I diverge again. I am sure you get a lot of racist shit thrown at you, and I really appreciate the fact that you keep pushing the limit on conversations about the important issues (all of them, not only this one)! You need to understand that you have more admirers than detractors, but alas most of them are silent and support you from their corner just by reading what you have to say. Thank you in their name. Peace!
"he declared this "line of questioning" transphobic and retreated to his bedroom. He doesn't do that for absolutely anything else. It is frightening to see young people become cultish"
I'm so sorry to hear about this. It really is surreal watching this unfold. I've experienced the exact same thing with people close to me. People who I can usually talk to about any subject. People who know perfectly well that I'm not hateful or bigoted.
I've been racking my brain trying to understand why this topic elicits such a strong fear reaction in some people. As if their brains simply won't allow them to think about it. So far, I haven't come up with anything that makes sense.
"99% sex crimes in the trans community are committed by transwomen (males, intact or not)."
No, that's just it, it's not "intact or not." It's intact. The research is here:
https://fairplayforwomen.com/criminality/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629.amp
You keep on writing about this issue as if I'm unaware of the complexities of it. Or as if I'm unaware of the stories you're mentioning. I can promise you I'm not. I've been researching this for a good four years at this point. I promise I'm paying at least as much attention as you are.
Transition doesn't mean sexual reassignment surgery. It can apply to any degree of social transition or even, in the case of prisons, no transition at all. It's policies like those that I'm arguing very strongly against. You don't need to tell me the importance of women's spaces, I've been arguing for preserving them since I first started writing about trans issues. But I'm looking for a standard of womanhood that is reasonable for trans people who are genuinely suffering from gender dysphoria.
Full sexual reassignment, as in removal of testes and penis, seems to be a reasonable standard to me. First, that's a reasonable measure for whether somebody is genuinely dysphoric. Second, without testes, male aggression decreases significantly (we see this in all animal species, of course, it's why we neuter dogs). And third, it changes the character of sexual abuse completely. Women can and very occasionally do assault other women. But the lack of a penis and male strength make it a completely different issue.
As for how to tell what degree of transition somebody has undergone, it depends on the space you're talking about.
For bathrooms, I suggest we do exactly what we do now, which is appraise people based on how masculine/feminine they look. Women already find themselves challenged in bathrooms sometimes if they look too butch. There's a fair chance you've already shared a bathroom with a trans woman. Ands it's almost certain that you've been around a trans woman and not realised. Nobody checks genitals right now to see if you can get into a bathroom, they simply look at your face and if you're feminine looking enough they don't challenge it.
For sport, I think we should be able to look at medical history. Elite athletes already undergo drug tests, why should sex tests be any different?
For legal recognition as a woman (as in having "F" on your birth certificate), I think you should have to undergo sex reassignment for reasons laid out above. No regular genital checks necessary, that's all taken care of during the application process. If you don't want that surgery, you are recognised as a trans woman, but not as a female.
If you want to access a rape crisis centre for example, they should absolutely have to verify whether you're female or male. Most crisis centres offer services for trans women, I think that's a good thing. But they should also offer services exclusively for females.
You're arguing against overly permissive regulations for trans inclusion. I am too. I can't understand how you're not seeing that. Every word I've ever written on the topic is in support of women's right to have their own spaces and of the fact that including men in female spaces just because they say "I'm a woman" is irresponsible, dangerous and deeply misogynistic. I've argued specifically against selfID in pretty much every article I've ever written. Don't mistake a desire for nuance and a consideration for people with genuine dysphoria as a failure to understand the issues.
I detect some annoyance in your tone, and I suppose the way I expressed my arguments made you think I was accusing you of stuff. I'm not. We are both arguing against over permissive regulations for trans inclusion, great! I guess I thought I could be angry and bitch about this, as someone who is not allowed to refer at herself with her own language, and who is now a subsection of her own sex category (cis and trans, right?). And of course I shared toilets with transgender women, I am even friends with a few. They are perfectly reasonable, and understand all of our concerns, including why I hate to call them women (I also commiserate when they say they hate NOT to be called women; in some ways, though, women instinctively know that once you have allowed that degree of impersonation, their complete erasure is just a matter of time - call it "surviving instinct"). They also understand how much of a slippery slope this whole issue has become, from erasing women as a sex category in law, to allowing males to dominate women's sports, to the self-ID madness. So we are on the same page, all good. Keep doing what you do.
тАЬI guess I thought I could be angry and bitch about this, as someone who is not allowed to refer at herself with her own language, and who is now a subsection of her own sex category (cis and trans, right?)тАЭ
Yeah exactly. Of course, you have every right to be angry. IтАЩm angry! But it sounded as if you were angry with *me*, or assuming I was ignorant because I тАЬdonтАЩt deal with this every day.тАЭ
Actually, as itтАЩs my name on the articles I write, I do deal with abuse very regularly. The amount of racism in my comments and especially DMs is a sight to behold. And IтАЩm also risking a chunk of my income writing about it. Medium has banned many writers for saying anything that isnтАЩt wholly pro-trans.
So yeah, I guess I just didnтАЩt appreciate what I took to be an implication that I donтАЩt care as much. Or that I havenтАЩt thought about the issues carefully. IтАЩm a man, but that doesnтАЩt mean I donтАЩt care deeply about this issue.
I acknowledge that some of us are deeply emotional about this and we can come across as unreasonable and even abusive. How can we not? Heck, my own son went to college with his reason intact, and came back home after one semester chanting slogans and telling me to stop being "obsessive" about "this shit" because "transwomen just want to pee". I tried to have a conversation with him based on logic only (who can???), and we agreed that "gender" was invented to keep women in their place (usually kitchen and bedroom), and that "gender doesn't exist", but "sex" does (as in "there are immutable biological differences between females and males"), but all went dramatically south from there! Because as soon as I said "in this case what does 'transgender' mean, since gender doesn't exist? How does one transition from one gender to another without reinforcing the idea that there are two genders, and they are not expressing sexual differences, but superficial ideas we have about women and men? (based on logic, right????)" he declared this "line of questioning" transphobic and retreated to his bedroom. He doesn't do that for absolutely anything else. It is frightening to see young people become cultish, and when they are your own children it feels like the world is going to implode tomorrow.
But, anyway, I diverge again. I am sure you get a lot of racist shit thrown at you, and I really appreciate the fact that you keep pushing the limit on conversations about the important issues (all of them, not only this one)! You need to understand that you have more admirers than detractors, but alas most of them are silent and support you from their corner just by reading what you have to say. Thank you in their name. Peace!
"he declared this "line of questioning" transphobic and retreated to his bedroom. He doesn't do that for absolutely anything else. It is frightening to see young people become cultish"
I'm so sorry to hear about this. It really is surreal watching this unfold. I've experienced the exact same thing with people close to me. People who I can usually talk to about any subject. People who know perfectly well that I'm not hateful or bigoted.
I've been racking my brain trying to understand why this topic elicits such a strong fear reaction in some people. As if their brains simply won't allow them to think about it. So far, I haven't come up with anything that makes sense.