Women's sports are serious sports and elite women competing against each other is a joy to watch. I'm a big fan. I truly hate to see that ruined by trans. I understand that there are plenty of women who are stronger than couch potato men, or me at my age, but this is about elite athletes within fairly defined groups. Not the strongest women compared to the weakest men.
As for the been a woman all their life only to find Y in their DNA (do they have a paternal haplogroup?), it has got to be heartbreaking and as a father of daughters who participated in sportd I have a huge amount of empathy for them. But the divide is about male biological advantage. Doing away with that would effectively put an end to women's sports.
I can't believe what was still going on in the 60s. Women today need to start speaking up about men in women's sports and locker rooms. I don't get it. Why aren't all women speaking up for these athletes?
"Why aren't all women speaking up for these athletes?"
For a number of reasons (intimidation and punishment for those who speak up, a lack of understanding of the biology, a belief that admitting men are stronger than women is "antifeminist," a desire to be "kind"), a surprising number of women support this. Not athletes, of course, athletes are all very clear about the importance of a female category, but they don't make the decisions.
This is not a question of transphobia. Not a question of an irrational fear over something unaccountably misunderstood. Take the boxing debacle: this is a case of two tragically mismatched opponents. Where the loser is suddenly and unapologetically given a decisive and dangerous disadvantage, while the winner is suddenly and overbearingly given a decisive advantage.
This was completely avoidable, if only there were separate categories for trans athletes. So there would be no phobia involved at all, but rather an equitable structure to accommodate each and every athlete. Celebrating the Olympic spirit at its core.
But for many in the world, it's much easier to heap scorn on not only those of us who object without the merest trace of any phobia, but on the athlete who lost. It's much easier to heap scorn and present yourselves as champions of virtue, rather than think things through and work toward a just resolution. And incidentally, it will be much easier for many to heap scorn on me as well for daring to be reasonable.
While a few sports allow for hormone doping, the olympics are decidedly for natural athletes. For all but trans-athletes, doping your hormones has always disqualified the athlete. Over time, hundreds of athletes have been disqualified and medals stripped.
Natural athletes, trans or no, are free to compete to the highest level they are able.
People should be free to change their natural body. They should not automatically be free to retain all the options in sports where only natural bodies are eligible. e.g., have your cake and eat it too. You have to choose, or competition is inherently unfair. No one else retains eligibility while altering hormones.
Another well constructed argument, and the first I've seen that shows sympathy for the boxers themselves. We need more nuance and subtlety, and the freedom to express them. I wonder what some of these people would say if we proposed moving all of Bruce Jenner's medals and records over to the women's category, since trans people are "always" trans even before transitioning.
Another issue I found odd is that there is a woman competing in track who identifies as non-binary, and she is being celebrated in the media as a "trans" athlete, even though she only changed her pronouns. What are the rules there? Do non-binary athletes automatically get assigned to the women's team, or do they get to pick which side they want to compete in? Who would ever choose to compete in the Men's category??
"I wonder what some of these people would say if we proposed moving all of Bruce Jenner's medals and records over to the women's category, since trans people are "always" trans even before transitioning"
Ha! Great point!
And yes, there's a trans man boxing in the female category at this very Olympics. The idea that trans/nonbinary people can neither compete in the appropriate category for their sex is ridiculous. Several trans men (and "nonbinary" females) do this, because they understand, as every serious person understands, that it's dangerous or at least unfavourable for female athletes to compete against males. However they "identify."
You are likely referring to Nikki Hiltz who is female and identifies as non-binary. I find no controversy in her running as her natal sex. Slightly interesting is that she has chosen to have top surgery to remove her breasts, but I wish her the best in competing as a woman.
It's getting worse and worse. The crowd has lost any wisdom it might have once had. The crowd has lost its mind. The right is nuts and so is the left. Logic left the room long ago, along with curiosity and humor. Leaving braggadocio, arrogance, and aggression at the bar, drinking themselves into righteous rants.
Women's sports are serious sports and elite women competing against each other is a joy to watch. I'm a big fan. I truly hate to see that ruined by trans. I understand that there are plenty of women who are stronger than couch potato men, or me at my age, but this is about elite athletes within fairly defined groups. Not the strongest women compared to the weakest men.
As for the been a woman all their life only to find Y in their DNA (do they have a paternal haplogroup?), it has got to be heartbreaking and as a father of daughters who participated in sportd I have a huge amount of empathy for them. But the divide is about male biological advantage. Doing away with that would effectively put an end to women's sports.
I can't believe what was still going on in the 60s. Women today need to start speaking up about men in women's sports and locker rooms. I don't get it. Why aren't all women speaking up for these athletes?
"Why aren't all women speaking up for these athletes?"
For a number of reasons (intimidation and punishment for those who speak up, a lack of understanding of the biology, a belief that admitting men are stronger than women is "antifeminist," a desire to be "kind"), a surprising number of women support this. Not athletes, of course, athletes are all very clear about the importance of a female category, but they don't make the decisions.
Well said!
This is not a question of transphobia. Not a question of an irrational fear over something unaccountably misunderstood. Take the boxing debacle: this is a case of two tragically mismatched opponents. Where the loser is suddenly and unapologetically given a decisive and dangerous disadvantage, while the winner is suddenly and overbearingly given a decisive advantage.
This was completely avoidable, if only there were separate categories for trans athletes. So there would be no phobia involved at all, but rather an equitable structure to accommodate each and every athlete. Celebrating the Olympic spirit at its core.
But for many in the world, it's much easier to heap scorn on not only those of us who object without the merest trace of any phobia, but on the athlete who lost. It's much easier to heap scorn and present yourselves as champions of virtue, rather than think things through and work toward a just resolution. And incidentally, it will be much easier for many to heap scorn on me as well for daring to be reasonable.
While a few sports allow for hormone doping, the olympics are decidedly for natural athletes. For all but trans-athletes, doping your hormones has always disqualified the athlete. Over time, hundreds of athletes have been disqualified and medals stripped.
Natural athletes, trans or no, are free to compete to the highest level they are able.
People should be free to change their natural body. They should not automatically be free to retain all the options in sports where only natural bodies are eligible. e.g., have your cake and eat it too. You have to choose, or competition is inherently unfair. No one else retains eligibility while altering hormones.
Another well constructed argument, and the first I've seen that shows sympathy for the boxers themselves. We need more nuance and subtlety, and the freedom to express them. I wonder what some of these people would say if we proposed moving all of Bruce Jenner's medals and records over to the women's category, since trans people are "always" trans even before transitioning.
Another issue I found odd is that there is a woman competing in track who identifies as non-binary, and she is being celebrated in the media as a "trans" athlete, even though she only changed her pronouns. What are the rules there? Do non-binary athletes automatically get assigned to the women's team, or do they get to pick which side they want to compete in? Who would ever choose to compete in the Men's category??
"I wonder what some of these people would say if we proposed moving all of Bruce Jenner's medals and records over to the women's category, since trans people are "always" trans even before transitioning"
Ha! Great point!
And yes, there's a trans man boxing in the female category at this very Olympics. The idea that trans/nonbinary people can neither compete in the appropriate category for their sex is ridiculous. Several trans men (and "nonbinary" females) do this, because they understand, as every serious person understands, that it's dangerous or at least unfavourable for female athletes to compete against males. However they "identify."
You are likely referring to Nikki Hiltz who is female and identifies as non-binary. I find no controversy in her running as her natal sex. Slightly interesting is that she has chosen to have top surgery to remove her breasts, but I wish her the best in competing as a woman.
It's getting worse and worse. The crowd has lost any wisdom it might have once had. The crowd has lost its mind. The right is nuts and so is the left. Logic left the room long ago, along with curiosity and humor. Leaving braggadocio, arrogance, and aggression at the bar, drinking themselves into righteous rants.
You might enjoy this: https://www.gurwinder.blog/p/the-outrageous-rise-of-neotoddlerism
Brilliant, as per usual. I love your last sentence! Nail, meet hammer.