One of the downsides of sharing your opinions online is the nagging worry that you’re wrong about something important. What if dogs and knitting really can be racist? What if silence really is violence? And what if, despite all my conversations and research on trans issues, I’ve managed to miss the genocidal human rights violations that activists insist are taking place?
I had a conversation with someone who identified as a trans woman. I asked what made him "feel" like a woman and he said he likes to feel sexy in women's clothing. That was it. He didn't live as a woman, he just dressed up. Has never taken hormones and has no interest in surgery. So basically, he's just a cross dresser. No judgement from me, btw. It's just interesting to me that a) the "trans" concept has become overly broad, and b) this indicates a regression to stereotypes about clothing, and I wonder how far it goes.
"I asked what made him "feel" like a woman and he said he likes to feel sexy in women's clothing"
Yep exactly. Also known as autogynephilia or, perhaps, transvestitism. These fetishes have existed, probably, for millennia.
I also make no judgement on a man who gets his kicks from dressing up in women's clothing. I, and every sane person left on earth, take issue with the idea that this actually *makes* him a woman, grants him any rights to access female spaces, or that everybody should have to sit quietly by as he indulges his sexual fetish in public.
I think he eventually conceded that he's not a woman, or even really trans. He had just bought into this idea that putting on women's clothes made him a woman.
Steven, if you haven’t already, read the recent New Yorker interview with writer Masha Gessen. She now uses “they/them” pronouns and identifies an non-binary.
At one point she refers to Judith Butler as “she”, catches herself and then corrects to “they.” (Butler has used “they/them” for years)
It was extremely telling. Even though Gessen, herself, also uses “they/them” pronouns, her immediate instinct was to read Butler as a “she,” as does the rest of the world. That says something about the narcissism of this movement that they want us to 1) know what they feel about their own gender and then 2) memorize it, all evidence to the contrary.
"Even though Gessen, herself, also uses “they/them” pronouns, her immediate instinct was to read Butler as a “she,” as does the rest of the world"
Absolutely. And even if they believed it, which they don't, it's an impossible standard. I've noticed a lot of the fully indoctrinated resort to referring to everybody as "they" to avoid mistakes like these which a) is still misgendering if you believe in the dogma, and b) shows that even for them, using pronouns to affirm, rather than to describe, is more hassle than it's worth.
While I think a lot of trans men do pass, trans women only seem to pass in the presence of men. Women know when they are in the presence of a male. They clock it in a split second because this is really important information for theirs and their children's survival. Women automatically relax in the company of other women, but being in the presence of a male, especially one we don't know, sets off something in us, and we're we are on guard to varying degrees depending on the vibe that man gives us. It actually makes no difference if that male has transitioned.
In all candor, very few “trans women” can actually pass. Some of just take it too far and Tammy Faye could lecture them about subtlety... and most of the rest range from absurd to nightmarish.
It's such bastardisation of femininity. Can't they just embody the feminine in themselves? Why doesn't that help dysphoria? — being compassionate, and taking on emotional labour an all the more meaningful things women do? I guess that's where it gets offensive, when they plunder femininity and all they come up with is the porn version.
My wife watches Thai TV over the internet. They have some very pretty trans? women where I have to think a bit, but she instantly says, "That's a man Honey!" I can't say that she represents all women, but she has a quicker eye for sure.
In everyday life I don't pay much attention to the gender of people I encounter since it's unimportant. But I am naturally attracted to beauty (a sweet tooth for eye candy) and there is plenty of that on her TV so I frequently have the "Damn! She's pretty" thought.
It makes me wonder why there are not more women, other than those who have been victims of sexual violence, who are vocal about the trans thing. I think that genuine womanhood is of greater importance to women than it might seem.
Yeah, I mean we're more than a sexy costume right? People are shocked at the level of outrage in terfs, but what did they expect? We've spent our lives as women, not just navigating the never-ending challenges of the female reproductive role, and consistently devoting ourselves to the welling of others, but being put down and violated by men. And then you have to facedown menopause (which from everything I've heard is treacherous) — and how do men honour tall that care and sacrifice? By sexualisng and objectifying us to the point they can put on some fake boobs, insist they are getting a period, and bingo, they are one of us. The insult goes deeper than they could ever imagine.
The human rights the “trans” people are denied are (1) getting everything they want immediately all the time and (2) being at the center of attention all the time.
Why are you trying to be logical with people who don’t believe in reality?
People nowadays get crucified for recognizing that social contagion is real and that humans are inherently mimetic. People see trans folks getting all kinds of attention and the edgy delight of victimhood and camaraderie of being a member of a “marginalized community” and think “Me too!” Suddenly the world “owes” them special attention. No wonder it’s a fad!
There are plenty of trans people who are not entitled brats. My guess is the real ones are not; it’s the wannabes who are demanding that we kiss objective reality goodbye, fuck up the English language, and guilt everyone into catering to their every whim.
I too am so fed up with the fight between TERFs & whatever-the-right-term-is-for-trans-activists-with-no-sense-of-proportion.
Of course trans people who "pass" should use the toilets they're comfortable in. Who'd know?
Of course we need space in prisons set aside for trans people so they can be held safely and respectfully. That would put an end to male abusers trying to declare themselves trans, that's for sure.
Of course there are nasty abusive people who try to game the system to gain access to vulnerable people (and how many of them are police or prison guards?) who need to be dealt with, firmly. Some of them use the gender debate, some of them use their job, some their extreme wealth or status on social media. They all need dealing with.
The problem is the abuse & manipulation, not the route the abuser chooses to try to achieve their satisfaction.
And there are people who feel they need help with psycho-sexual-gender issues, who ought to be able to get advice & help without falling into the hands of a financially predatory medical system like the one in the US, or a manipulative abusive medical professional, for that matter. It's never going to be easy.
This will sound harsh, but part of the problem is the current aversion to calling things like this mental illness. Let's be real, if you are not clinically dysphoric and you want to sexually mutilate yourself it's crazy. I think that it is medical malpractice to not try to help the mentally ill from self-harm. If an issue is in your mind, I think that needs to be addressed first. I understand that is a slippery slope.
"The trans activists NEVER talk about this. Ever."
Yep, my ever expanding list of things to write about includes an article about rans men specifically. I think trans men clarify a lot of these issues that are thought of by most people, on both sides, purely in terms of trans women.
Funnily enough, it's almost unheard of to see trans men being aggressive or violent or demanding when it comes to their inclusion. It's always the trans women. I wonder what could explain that...
For those of us not immersed 24/7 in "trans" issues the terms are confusing. A "trans" woman is a man, a "trans" man is a woman. In an earlier discussion you introduced the term "trans-identifying man" in which the biological gender ends the phrase. In the interests of (1) clarity and (2) not playing along with this crap, I think those terms make more sense in this forum.
I’m going to assume from your sincerity and candor that your son is one of the very few who is actually dysphoric. Aside from the statistical improbability, I have no reason to disbelieve this.
But the issue is severely adulterated by vast numbers for whom “trans” is just a game, an opportunity to get a sense of belonging and a ton of attention. The transgender people I’ve known were quiet about their condition, didn’t live in a state of rage at imagined slights, and didn’t make YouTube videos about being “misgendered” or about their goddamn pronouns.
This fad is harming the real ones and harming a lot if other people; the collateral damage of renewed attacks on people innocent of this behavior, the new loss of support for LGB people, the kerfuffle around drag shows.
People being fired from work over pronouns. Ridiculous sensitivity training sessions. Teachers expected to remember different third-person references for large classrooms.
I lost $1500//month for posting something inoffensive and biologically factual on Medium, *once*.
If I worked in an office I could be fired for my refusal to use “they” as a singular.
The backlash is starting. It’s not going to be pleasant.
I am left to wonder if the viciousness aimed at you is because you hold primary membership in the LGB that they want to attach themselves to and you (rightfully in my opinion) reject that. They also are very vicious toward women who object to the removal of the trans prefix from woman. I see a commonality in "you are not really one of us" as threatening to them.
Not in this case though I'm sure that's happened. I didn't put "gay" in my profile n Medium because I don't feel much identification with it. No, this uh person was just a rage case. Its avatar was a cartoon girl snarling in rage and its moniker was something belligerent; its profile was 100% "trans" and "queer" credentials.
As far as I can see the "trans" crowd, especially the biological men, see enemies everywhere and want allies from outside their sore and sick community like a slug wants salt. They enjoy feeling important enough to feel persecuted.
What really scares me is how many people who should know better are buying into this stuff. Barristas in Starbucks have pronouns on their name tags now. A lot of companies demand that employees have them in email signatures. A lot of Democrats have them in their social media profiles.
And I couldn't give less of a shit about the gender of the person serving me coffee or that I interface with in business. With a sane business focus on a lack of gender focus, requiring pronouns seems strange.
As soon as you start requiring new construction e.g. in prisons you are going to have well-financed pushback. Some "trans" activists demand special bathrooms everywhere from gas stations to skyscrapers, for what amounts to, in reality, well under 1% of the population.
I think that those who claim a gender other than the one born into have implicitly opted out of all sports competitions unless there are ungendered sports I don't know about. Lia Thomas was an outrage.
Locker rooms, changing rooms, lavatories; these are big problems because a lot of women, maybe most, have every right to object. This is not new. The Minnesota Womyn's (sic) Music Festival emphatically didn't want trans identifying men in attendance and that was a quarter century ago when the only transitioned were actually dysphoric. We're not going to settle this here.
I had a conversation with someone who identified as a trans woman. I asked what made him "feel" like a woman and he said he likes to feel sexy in women's clothing. That was it. He didn't live as a woman, he just dressed up. Has never taken hormones and has no interest in surgery. So basically, he's just a cross dresser. No judgement from me, btw. It's just interesting to me that a) the "trans" concept has become overly broad, and b) this indicates a regression to stereotypes about clothing, and I wonder how far it goes.
"I asked what made him "feel" like a woman and he said he likes to feel sexy in women's clothing"
Yep exactly. Also known as autogynephilia or, perhaps, transvestitism. These fetishes have existed, probably, for millennia.
I also make no judgement on a man who gets his kicks from dressing up in women's clothing. I, and every sane person left on earth, take issue with the idea that this actually *makes* him a woman, grants him any rights to access female spaces, or that everybody should have to sit quietly by as he indulges his sexual fetish in public.
I think he eventually conceded that he's not a woman, or even really trans. He had just bought into this idea that putting on women's clothes made him a woman.
Transvestitism is a paraphilia, not a dysphoria.
Steven, if you haven’t already, read the recent New Yorker interview with writer Masha Gessen. She now uses “they/them” pronouns and identifies an non-binary.
At one point she refers to Judith Butler as “she”, catches herself and then corrects to “they.” (Butler has used “they/them” for years)
It was extremely telling. Even though Gessen, herself, also uses “they/them” pronouns, her immediate instinct was to read Butler as a “she,” as does the rest of the world. That says something about the narcissism of this movement that they want us to 1) know what they feel about their own gender and then 2) memorize it, all evidence to the contrary.
"Even though Gessen, herself, also uses “they/them” pronouns, her immediate instinct was to read Butler as a “she,” as does the rest of the world"
Absolutely. And even if they believed it, which they don't, it's an impossible standard. I've noticed a lot of the fully indoctrinated resort to referring to everybody as "they" to avoid mistakes like these which a) is still misgendering if you believe in the dogma, and b) shows that even for them, using pronouns to affirm, rather than to describe, is more hassle than it's worth.
It's also confusing as hell
“And some trans women make convincing enough women that they already use some female spaces without anybody noticing. “
Let’s not lose track of the reality that these are convincing impersonations.
While I think a lot of trans men do pass, trans women only seem to pass in the presence of men. Women know when they are in the presence of a male. They clock it in a split second because this is really important information for theirs and their children's survival. Women automatically relax in the company of other women, but being in the presence of a male, especially one we don't know, sets off something in us, and we're we are on guard to varying degrees depending on the vibe that man gives us. It actually makes no difference if that male has transitioned.
In all candor, very few “trans women” can actually pass. Some of just take it too far and Tammy Faye could lecture them about subtlety... and most of the rest range from absurd to nightmarish.
It's such bastardisation of femininity. Can't they just embody the feminine in themselves? Why doesn't that help dysphoria? — being compassionate, and taking on emotional labour an all the more meaningful things women do? I guess that's where it gets offensive, when they plunder femininity and all they come up with is the porn version.
My wife watches Thai TV over the internet. They have some very pretty trans? women where I have to think a bit, but she instantly says, "That's a man Honey!" I can't say that she represents all women, but she has a quicker eye for sure.
In everyday life I don't pay much attention to the gender of people I encounter since it's unimportant. But I am naturally attracted to beauty (a sweet tooth for eye candy) and there is plenty of that on her TV so I frequently have the "Damn! She's pretty" thought.
It makes me wonder why there are not more women, other than those who have been victims of sexual violence, who are vocal about the trans thing. I think that genuine womanhood is of greater importance to women than it might seem.
Yeah, I mean we're more than a sexy costume right? People are shocked at the level of outrage in terfs, but what did they expect? We've spent our lives as women, not just navigating the never-ending challenges of the female reproductive role, and consistently devoting ourselves to the welling of others, but being put down and violated by men. And then you have to facedown menopause (which from everything I've heard is treacherous) — and how do men honour tall that care and sacrifice? By sexualisng and objectifying us to the point they can put on some fake boobs, insist they are getting a period, and bingo, they are one of us. The insult goes deeper than they could ever imagine.
I hope that my "a sweet tooth for eye candy" remark did not lead you to believe that I have disrespect for women. Y'all are much more than that.
No, there is nothing wrong with appreciation for beauty, in males or females. Your tone was respectful. Have a great day.
Words from a well spoken feminist.
https://unherd.com/2018/12/what-does-gender-have-to-do-with-genitals/
The human rights the “trans” people are denied are (1) getting everything they want immediately all the time and (2) being at the center of attention all the time.
Why are you trying to be logical with people who don’t believe in reality?
“...until it’s no longer fashionable to do so.”
People nowadays get crucified for recognizing that social contagion is real and that humans are inherently mimetic. People see trans folks getting all kinds of attention and the edgy delight of victimhood and camaraderie of being a member of a “marginalized community” and think “Me too!” Suddenly the world “owes” them special attention. No wonder it’s a fad!
There are plenty of trans people who are not entitled brats. My guess is the real ones are not; it’s the wannabes who are demanding that we kiss objective reality goodbye, fuck up the English language, and guilt everyone into catering to their every whim.
It’s working for them. God help us.
I am so,so sick of this absurd debate
I too am so fed up with the fight between TERFs & whatever-the-right-term-is-for-trans-activists-with-no-sense-of-proportion.
Of course trans people who "pass" should use the toilets they're comfortable in. Who'd know?
Of course we need space in prisons set aside for trans people so they can be held safely and respectfully. That would put an end to male abusers trying to declare themselves trans, that's for sure.
Of course there are nasty abusive people who try to game the system to gain access to vulnerable people (and how many of them are police or prison guards?) who need to be dealt with, firmly. Some of them use the gender debate, some of them use their job, some their extreme wealth or status on social media. They all need dealing with.
The problem is the abuse & manipulation, not the route the abuser chooses to try to achieve their satisfaction.
And there are people who feel they need help with psycho-sexual-gender issues, who ought to be able to get advice & help without falling into the hands of a financially predatory medical system like the one in the US, or a manipulative abusive medical professional, for that matter. It's never going to be easy.
This will sound harsh, but part of the problem is the current aversion to calling things like this mental illness. Let's be real, if you are not clinically dysphoric and you want to sexually mutilate yourself it's crazy. I think that it is medical malpractice to not try to help the mentally ill from self-harm. If an issue is in your mind, I think that needs to be addressed first. I understand that is a slippery slope.
Some kid changing her “gender identity” every few hours. Quick get her on cross sex hormones and schedule surgery.
"The trans activists NEVER talk about this. Ever."
Yep, my ever expanding list of things to write about includes an article about rans men specifically. I think trans men clarify a lot of these issues that are thought of by most people, on both sides, purely in terms of trans women.
Funnily enough, it's almost unheard of to see trans men being aggressive or violent or demanding when it comes to their inclusion. It's always the trans women. I wonder what could explain that...
For those of us not immersed 24/7 in "trans" issues the terms are confusing. A "trans" woman is a man, a "trans" man is a woman. In an earlier discussion you introduced the term "trans-identifying man" in which the biological gender ends the phrase. In the interests of (1) clarity and (2) not playing along with this crap, I think those terms make more sense in this forum.
I’m going to assume from your sincerity and candor that your son is one of the very few who is actually dysphoric. Aside from the statistical improbability, I have no reason to disbelieve this.
But the issue is severely adulterated by vast numbers for whom “trans” is just a game, an opportunity to get a sense of belonging and a ton of attention. The transgender people I’ve known were quiet about their condition, didn’t live in a state of rage at imagined slights, and didn’t make YouTube videos about being “misgendered” or about their goddamn pronouns.
This fad is harming the real ones and harming a lot if other people; the collateral damage of renewed attacks on people innocent of this behavior, the new loss of support for LGB people, the kerfuffle around drag shows.
People being fired from work over pronouns. Ridiculous sensitivity training sessions. Teachers expected to remember different third-person references for large classrooms.
I lost $1500//month for posting something inoffensive and biologically factual on Medium, *once*.
If I worked in an office I could be fired for my refusal to use “they” as a singular.
The backlash is starting. It’s not going to be pleasant.
I am left to wonder if the viciousness aimed at you is because you hold primary membership in the LGB that they want to attach themselves to and you (rightfully in my opinion) reject that. They also are very vicious toward women who object to the removal of the trans prefix from woman. I see a commonality in "you are not really one of us" as threatening to them.
Not in this case though I'm sure that's happened. I didn't put "gay" in my profile n Medium because I don't feel much identification with it. No, this uh person was just a rage case. Its avatar was a cartoon girl snarling in rage and its moniker was something belligerent; its profile was 100% "trans" and "queer" credentials.
As far as I can see the "trans" crowd, especially the biological men, see enemies everywhere and want allies from outside their sore and sick community like a slug wants salt. They enjoy feeling important enough to feel persecuted.
What really scares me is how many people who should know better are buying into this stuff. Barristas in Starbucks have pronouns on their name tags now. A lot of companies demand that employees have them in email signatures. A lot of Democrats have them in their social media profiles.
It is interesting that trans identifying men are most prone to display the traits that feminists find to be toxic in men.
And I couldn't give less of a shit about the gender of the person serving me coffee or that I interface with in business. With a sane business focus on a lack of gender focus, requiring pronouns seems strange.
"Its" seems like an appropriate pronoun for it.
Don't want "he?"
Don't want "she?"
You're not getting "they."
"It" is what you get.
Bububut ...
"You made your bed, lie in it and shut the fuck up."
As soon as you start requiring new construction e.g. in prisons you are going to have well-financed pushback. Some "trans" activists demand special bathrooms everywhere from gas stations to skyscrapers, for what amounts to, in reality, well under 1% of the population.
I think that those who claim a gender other than the one born into have implicitly opted out of all sports competitions unless there are ungendered sports I don't know about. Lia Thomas was an outrage.
Locker rooms, changing rooms, lavatories; these are big problems because a lot of women, maybe most, have every right to object. This is not new. The Minnesota Womyn's (sic) Music Festival emphatically didn't want trans identifying men in attendance and that was a quarter century ago when the only transitioned were actually dysphoric. We're not going to settle this here.
"𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘴 𝘕𝘌𝘝𝘌𝘙 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴. 𝘌𝘷𝘦𝘳."
Acknowledging the reality of genitalia does not support fantasy of trans-radicals.