"My biggest issue with your initial article and your reply here is that you frame it as a black and white discussion."
How have I done that? The entire thesis of the article is that we need a workable definition of what a trans woman is. How can we possibly talk about the grey areas of trans women's inclusion before we know what a trans w…
"My biggest issue with your initial article and your reply here is that you frame it as a black and white discussion."
How have I done that? The entire thesis of the article is that we need a workable definition of what a trans woman is. How can we possibly talk about the grey areas of trans women's inclusion before we know what a trans woman is?
Tell me, specifically, preferably using quotes from the article, how I've framed trans inclusion as a "black and white discussion."
As I have written in my other posts, it refers to how you use broad concepts like women and trans-community as I have written above. Seems pretty obvious to me. But I get, you seem to have trouble with the way I communicate.
In this statement:
"Do you accept that this is about more than "malicious men" and that women have a right to and need for private spaces from men, even if those men aren't malicious?"
I clarified that non all women and I believe not all and not even necessarily a majority of women in the west (where women is defined by chromosomal sex) "have a right to and need for private spaces from men". You're attributing a black and white view to women.
"You appear to have accepted that it's up to the trans community to lead in the definition of what a trans woman is, which is the entire thesis of the article you're arguing with. Do you recognize that they've failed badly to do this?"
You once again attributed your black and white views on the issue to the term "trans-community" and "woman".
I specifically clarified to "trans-activist-community" that believes a trans-woman = a woman. From my experience, many in the trans-community don't hold that position.
Hopefully that helps you understand why from my perspective you seem to hold black and white beliefs.
"it refers to how you use broad concepts like women and trans-community as I have written above"
I use terms like women and trans community because I'm writing about women and the trans community. What am I supposed to do?!
I'm using them both as umbrella terms and obviously don't mean every single member of either group. Even every single member of the trans activist community doesn't hold identical views on gender. Far from it.
This is just so painfully obvious that I didn't think I needed to spell it out for you. Everybody else seemed to understand just fine. If I need to couch every single statement behind conditionals and "not all Xs" it becomes unreadable very quickly.
"not all women [...] "have a right to and need for private spaces from men"
Maybe you don't understand how rights work. All women have a right to and need for specialised healthcare in the form of pregnancy-related care. But, of course, not all women can get pregnant or wish to get pregnant. But any women who DO get pregnant need this care and have a right to it.
The fact that some people don't use a right or even don't care about it doesn't mean they don't have that right.
BTW: you never asked why I have such a passion about the trans debate. I have referenced that in another comment:
a. I have daughters and granddaughters. Also my daughter is a psychologist who works with adolescents. We discuss what the right support is for a trans adolescent.
b. I have trans-people working for me. Want to be educated on how to best support them.
The concept of health care being a "right" is a whole 'nother debate. Lets not bring that into this discussion.
I'm not sure why you reference your comment. You seem to want to question another persons feelings when you have no real ability to step in the shoes of a trans-woman or a woman. Not clear how that works.
Interesting that you fault me for clarifying by being specific. Wonder where the need to do that comes from?
"My biggest issue with your initial article and your reply here is that you frame it as a black and white discussion."
How have I done that? The entire thesis of the article is that we need a workable definition of what a trans woman is. How can we possibly talk about the grey areas of trans women's inclusion before we know what a trans woman is?
Tell me, specifically, preferably using quotes from the article, how I've framed trans inclusion as a "black and white discussion."
As I have written in my other posts, it refers to how you use broad concepts like women and trans-community as I have written above. Seems pretty obvious to me. But I get, you seem to have trouble with the way I communicate.
In this statement:
"Do you accept that this is about more than "malicious men" and that women have a right to and need for private spaces from men, even if those men aren't malicious?"
I clarified that non all women and I believe not all and not even necessarily a majority of women in the west (where women is defined by chromosomal sex) "have a right to and need for private spaces from men". You're attributing a black and white view to women.
"You appear to have accepted that it's up to the trans community to lead in the definition of what a trans woman is, which is the entire thesis of the article you're arguing with. Do you recognize that they've failed badly to do this?"
You once again attributed your black and white views on the issue to the term "trans-community" and "woman".
I specifically clarified to "trans-activist-community" that believes a trans-woman = a woman. From my experience, many in the trans-community don't hold that position.
Hopefully that helps you understand why from my perspective you seem to hold black and white beliefs.
"it refers to how you use broad concepts like women and trans-community as I have written above"
I use terms like women and trans community because I'm writing about women and the trans community. What am I supposed to do?!
I'm using them both as umbrella terms and obviously don't mean every single member of either group. Even every single member of the trans activist community doesn't hold identical views on gender. Far from it.
This is just so painfully obvious that I didn't think I needed to spell it out for you. Everybody else seemed to understand just fine. If I need to couch every single statement behind conditionals and "not all Xs" it becomes unreadable very quickly.
See also:
https://commentary.steveqj.com/p/the-long-overdue-question-of-what/comment/114338834
"not all women [...] "have a right to and need for private spaces from men"
Maybe you don't understand how rights work. All women have a right to and need for specialised healthcare in the form of pregnancy-related care. But, of course, not all women can get pregnant or wish to get pregnant. But any women who DO get pregnant need this care and have a right to it.
The fact that some people don't use a right or even don't care about it doesn't mean they don't have that right.
BTW: you never asked why I have such a passion about the trans debate. I have referenced that in another comment:
a. I have daughters and granddaughters. Also my daughter is a psychologist who works with adolescents. We discuss what the right support is for a trans adolescent.
b. I have trans-people working for me. Want to be educated on how to best support them.
The concept of health care being a "right" is a whole 'nother debate. Lets not bring that into this discussion.
I'm not sure why you reference your comment. You seem to want to question another persons feelings when you have no real ability to step in the shoes of a trans-woman or a woman. Not clear how that works.
Interesting that you fault me for clarifying by being specific. Wonder where the need to do that comes from?