"You are absolutely wrong in believing that Palestinians are the most oppressed people in the world, hence they are justified in killing Jews. I don't even know where to begin to show you how wrong you are."
Uh, you'll be relieved to hear you don't have to start anywhere. Because I didn't EVEN REMOTELY suggest this!! Where on Earth did yo…
"You are absolutely wrong in believing that Palestinians are the most oppressed people in the world, hence they are justified in killing Jews. I don't even know where to begin to show you how wrong you are."
Uh, you'll be relieved to hear you don't have to start anywhere. Because I didn't EVEN REMOTELY suggest this!! Where on Earth did you get this from??! I've been absolutely unequivocal in my condemnation of Hamas and of the killing of innocent people ON BOTH SIDES.
It's so surreal. I talk to people about charged, emotional topics every day. I'm used to it at this point. And yet, whether it's race or trans people or now Israel, I never cease to be amazed by just how far people's reading of words can get from the words actually written down.
As for whether Israel is a country for Jewish people, how do you explain the fact that a Jew from the Bronx, or, indeed, anywhere else in the world, can go to Israel and be granted to citizenship but an Arab whose family was born in Jerusalem can't get those same rights?
Or that Israel restricts landownership and purchasing rights to Jews only in parts of Israel and the West Bank (https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/israel-discriminatory-land-policies-hem-palestinians). Why do you think that there is universal international agreement that Israel is involution of international law? Do you think this is all just people being mean to Israel? Even the countries currently sending them weapons?
And come on, seriously? The bombs had a "one-way direction" since 1949?? Have you heard of Operation Protective Edge? Or Operation Cast Lead? You can support Israel. You can hate Hamas. You can question the Palestinian commitment to peace. We might have small disagreements there, but that's all fair game. But you have to be more curious than this. You have to at least try to understand the full picture. You're saying things here that are just flat out untrue. Not matters of opinion or perspective, just totally untrue.
You keep trying to paint me as a biased and closed-minded on this topic. You can tell yourself that if you like. All I'd ask you to do, if you believe that you're *not* biased and are interested in the truth, is verify some of the claims I've made here for yourself. I've provided links to some. Feel free to ask for further evidence of anything else I've claimed here.
There are instances of housing discrimination in Israel, like in every other country on Earth. USA is no better, as you very well know. And still, we have no complaints about Jews being actually killed if they set foot in Palestine, let's complain about Palestinians not having housing equity in Israel. Are you equally well informed about inequality in ALL other countries in the Middle East? https://carnegie-mec.org/2020/03/12/inequality-and-its-discontents-in-middle-east-pub-81266
I am curious to know why this insistence on Israel and all the ugly sides that come with living in that part of the world? Are you a scholar of the Arab-Israeli conflict? Are you enraged by the 10 million Sudanese killed or expelled by Islamic militias and who constitute, right now, the most serious humanitarian crisis in the world? Are you equally interested by the situation in Yemen? If you don't know much about them, you might ask yourself why. You might come to understand why there is enough room in the world for 57 Muslim ethno-religious countries, but not enough for a small Jewish one. You are, sadly, taking a page from the contemporary ideology at play in America and Western countries: insisting so much on "exposing" the worst in the best democracies around (there is no perfect country on Earth), that we fail to see that the alternative is even worse. Have a good day, I said I would stop and I didn't, my bad.
It feels like we're not going to get anywhere here. But yes, actually the situation in the USA is very different. If you were saying this 60 years ago, I'd have agreed with you, but not today. And, of course, if you *were* saying this 60 years ago, you'd find that I'd object just as strongly to the discriminatory practices in the US as I do to the ones in Israel. Using one example of terrible injustice to justify another is very strange.
And yes, to answer your question, I'm enraged by all genocides. But my country isn't funding any of those as far as I'm aware. And again, if the argument is really, "why is it okay for these other countries to commit genocide but not ours?" I think you've hit the bottom of the barrel.
And of course I'd object to Jews being killed if they entered the West Bank or Gaza. Although, of course, Jews DO enter the west Bank. And more often than not, in the case of settlers, it's the Jews doing the killing.
It's so silly to keep declaring that I don't care about Jewish lives despite my repeatedly telling you that I do. I've written several articles condemning the killing of Jews as well as criticising antisemitism. You're arguing with your imagination.
Anyway, I won't try to convince you of anything anymore. Instead, if you're interested, I'd really like you to flesh out why you're so devoted to defending or deflecting from Israel's misdeeds. You touched on it in an earlier reply when you said you strongly believe in Jews' right to have a country in the land of their ancestors, but if you're up for it, I'd really like you to flesh it out. I'm desperate to understand this in as well-rounded and good-faith a way as possible.
I won't reply or turn this into a new topic of debate, I'll give you the last word, I'd just like to hear what motivates your feelings on this topic.
"You are absolutely wrong in believing that Palestinians are the most oppressed people in the world, hence they are justified in killing Jews. I don't even know where to begin to show you how wrong you are."
Uh, you'll be relieved to hear you don't have to start anywhere. Because I didn't EVEN REMOTELY suggest this!! Where on Earth did you get this from??! I've been absolutely unequivocal in my condemnation of Hamas and of the killing of innocent people ON BOTH SIDES.
It's so surreal. I talk to people about charged, emotional topics every day. I'm used to it at this point. And yet, whether it's race or trans people or now Israel, I never cease to be amazed by just how far people's reading of words can get from the words actually written down.
As for whether Israel is a country for Jewish people, how do you explain the fact that a Jew from the Bronx, or, indeed, anywhere else in the world, can go to Israel and be granted to citizenship but an Arab whose family was born in Jerusalem can't get those same rights?
Or that Israel restricts landownership and purchasing rights to Jews only in parts of Israel and the West Bank (https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/israel-discriminatory-land-policies-hem-palestinians). Why do you think that there is universal international agreement that Israel is involution of international law? Do you think this is all just people being mean to Israel? Even the countries currently sending them weapons?
And come on, seriously? The bombs had a "one-way direction" since 1949?? Have you heard of Operation Protective Edge? Or Operation Cast Lead? You can support Israel. You can hate Hamas. You can question the Palestinian commitment to peace. We might have small disagreements there, but that's all fair game. But you have to be more curious than this. You have to at least try to understand the full picture. You're saying things here that are just flat out untrue. Not matters of opinion or perspective, just totally untrue.
You keep trying to paint me as a biased and closed-minded on this topic. You can tell yourself that if you like. All I'd ask you to do, if you believe that you're *not* biased and are interested in the truth, is verify some of the claims I've made here for yourself. I've provided links to some. Feel free to ask for further evidence of anything else I've claimed here.
That is rich. We complain about a country where 21% of the population belongs to an ethnicity that has been at war with Jews since immemorial times and fail to see that NO Muslim country in the world would give safe haven to Jews. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/fd/il20062006_07/il20062006_07en.pdf
There are instances of housing discrimination in Israel, like in every other country on Earth. USA is no better, as you very well know. And still, we have no complaints about Jews being actually killed if they set foot in Palestine, let's complain about Palestinians not having housing equity in Israel. Are you equally well informed about inequality in ALL other countries in the Middle East? https://carnegie-mec.org/2020/03/12/inequality-and-its-discontents-in-middle-east-pub-81266
I am curious to know why this insistence on Israel and all the ugly sides that come with living in that part of the world? Are you a scholar of the Arab-Israeli conflict? Are you enraged by the 10 million Sudanese killed or expelled by Islamic militias and who constitute, right now, the most serious humanitarian crisis in the world? Are you equally interested by the situation in Yemen? If you don't know much about them, you might ask yourself why. You might come to understand why there is enough room in the world for 57 Muslim ethno-religious countries, but not enough for a small Jewish one. You are, sadly, taking a page from the contemporary ideology at play in America and Western countries: insisting so much on "exposing" the worst in the best democracies around (there is no perfect country on Earth), that we fail to see that the alternative is even worse. Have a good day, I said I would stop and I didn't, my bad.
"USA is no better, as you very well know."
It feels like we're not going to get anywhere here. But yes, actually the situation in the USA is very different. If you were saying this 60 years ago, I'd have agreed with you, but not today. And, of course, if you *were* saying this 60 years ago, you'd find that I'd object just as strongly to the discriminatory practices in the US as I do to the ones in Israel. Using one example of terrible injustice to justify another is very strange.
And yes, to answer your question, I'm enraged by all genocides. But my country isn't funding any of those as far as I'm aware. And again, if the argument is really, "why is it okay for these other countries to commit genocide but not ours?" I think you've hit the bottom of the barrel.
And of course I'd object to Jews being killed if they entered the West Bank or Gaza. Although, of course, Jews DO enter the west Bank. And more often than not, in the case of settlers, it's the Jews doing the killing.
It's so silly to keep declaring that I don't care about Jewish lives despite my repeatedly telling you that I do. I've written several articles condemning the killing of Jews as well as criticising antisemitism. You're arguing with your imagination.
Anyway, I won't try to convince you of anything anymore. Instead, if you're interested, I'd really like you to flesh out why you're so devoted to defending or deflecting from Israel's misdeeds. You touched on it in an earlier reply when you said you strongly believe in Jews' right to have a country in the land of their ancestors, but if you're up for it, I'd really like you to flesh it out. I'm desperate to understand this in as well-rounded and good-faith a way as possible.
I won't reply or turn this into a new topic of debate, I'll give you the last word, I'd just like to hear what motivates your feelings on this topic.