As a queer person, I enjoy spending time in queer venues. Not as much as as most of my LGB brothers & sisters, but certainly from time to time it's great. If that were my only option, I'd get very agitated or bored, but the feeling of "home" in those spaces is real and palpable. Especially as my circle of friends is basically straight, i…
As a queer person, I enjoy spending time in queer venues. Not as much as as most of my LGB brothers & sisters, but certainly from time to time it's great. If that were my only option, I'd get very agitated or bored, but the feeling of "home" in those spaces is real and palpable. Especially as my circle of friends is basically straight, it's nice to get away, so to speak. As a bi guy, I also like spending time with other bi folks, although this is actually a very rare occasion. Maybe because of the rarity of it, it's exciting when there's more than just one bi guy in a room.
As a mixed-race Filipino/White guy, I love spending time with my Filipino relatives and co-workers and I'm delighted when I get to bond with other mestizos. I don't see a lot of Filipino culture in my day to day life, even here in SF where there is a ton.
Okay, all that said, I wonder what you (and anyone else) thinks about affinity spaces. My feelings are... mixed?
I convened a "POC work group" at my workplace in 2020, at the request of three of my POC staff. (I'm an executive at my agency and they thought it should be started by someone at my level.) So I did. It was an interesting but also irritating experience, for the 4 meetings I was allowed to be there - they asked me and the other two directors in the group to step back so that they could come up with recommendations for the agency and they didn't want their discussion compromised by their various bosses being in the room. I did end up liking their recommendations, surprisingly. The POC group basically faded away after coming up with those recommendations in 2022. Shortly after, some white colleagues started a white affinity space, which was a controversial idea and continues to be one, among both POC & white staff not involved with the group. That group still meets. I'm pretty curious, in sort of a sick way, about what they talk about in that group (Robin DiAngelo? LOL) but I've been told as a mixed-race person, I shouldn't be there. (Context: I identify as mixed-race, as Filipino, and as white.) Which was probably for the best because I can imagine myself being an asshole in that space because of what I imagine to be extremely woke conversations.
Recently there have been noises about creating a "BIPOC" group. I'm so conflicted about joining. I know people expect me to. As a leader of my agency, and as the person who is specifically in charge of "DEI" (one of my many hats, and my least favorite one). But ugh I don't want to. Are they planning on talking about "white supremacy" per Tema Okun and how "whiteness" shows up in our majority-POC agency (LOL)? I think a part of my mulishness is super petty - I actually hate the acronym BIPOC because it feels so unnecessarily othering & diminishing of Asians, Latinos, and people from the Middle East. What a dumb word.
Sorry for all the rambling! It's Sunday night and I'm about to step into this tomorrow, so definitely on my mind. This seemed like a good space to journal!
"As a queer person, I enjoy spending time in queer venues."
Yeah, as I was just saying to Miguelitro, there's an important distinction to be made between cultural groupings and physical characteristic groupings. There's some overlap, of course, but the former is infinitely more valid than the latter.
LGBT-only spaces (sorry, I can't bring myself to embrace the Q-word), culturally specific spaces, religious spaces, I don't think there's any problem with these. But white-only spaces? Or black-only spaces? That's a different animal. Which is why I think they led to controversy. I've given serious thought to creating some kind of "workplace diversity done right" programme.🤔
I also hate the term BIPOC (I wrote an article about it) again, because it links people together who have no real point of connection except that they're not white. I think Asians, Latinos etc. are usually included in BIPOC, no? Anyway, as I've said many times before, humanity probably isn't going to outgrow tribes any time soon. I just wish we were better at making those tribes meaningful.
"sorry, I can't bring myself to embrace the Q-word"
yeah, I hear that. especially nowadays. (also I get why older/boomer gays would resist the word.) I've been using it since the 90s as a catch-all for LGB, so it's just another word for that acronym to me. what makes me want to resist it these days is the frequency of straight people using it to describe themselves. that's kind of a joke to me, worthy of a sneer or at least an eyeroll. I actually got in an argument with my youngest staffer over this usage - I guess it's common in Gen Z? anyway, I think straight people using it is super performative and cringey, akin to calling yourself a demisexual.
"I also hate the term BIPOC (I wrote an article about it) ... I think Asians, Latinos etc. are usually included in BIPOC, no?"
hey can you link to that article? I think I must have missed it.
yep, Asians etc. are included in the catch-all POC part of BIPOC, which is exactly what I find diminishing & othering. at least the standalone "POC", for all its flaws, equalizes all "people of color" rather than uplifting Black & Indigenous as apparently the most important POC, the rest can just be thrown together in the POC part. It's like if "LGBT" was "GaysEtc" - Gays taking precedence, lesbians & bis & trans tossed together into Etc.
And yeah, as with so many other things "queer" has just become a way for people who want to gain a few points on the victimhood hierarchy to claim they're oppressed. Oh, you kissed somebody of the same sex in college or had an open relationship once? Welcome to Q+!!
“sorry, I can't bring myself to embrace the Q word”
You’ll find very few gay men over a certain age who don’t find it as offensive as the N word.
“Queer” is what hundreds, maybe thousands, have had shouted at them as their teeth were knocked out and their noses flattened.
Like the friend I visited in the hospital in 1982, all his incisors gone and one eye damaged to uselessness.
Mark, I would appreciate you not using that vile word. And don’t dick me around with “reclaimed” or “language evolves.” This is a PTSD level issue. My watch tells me my heart rate went to 135 when I read it.
“I also hate the term BIPOC (I wrote an article about it) again, because it links people together who have no real point of connection except that they're”
Same as I feel about everything after “LGB.”
Now they’re even being “inclusive” with prostitutes.
I never heard if anyone pretending to be LGB. But nearly every T is pretending.
The funny thing is, all of this drama and cope and bullshit basically came out of Racial Reckoning 2020. And mainly from the management and executive levels rather than line staff (of course). The actual work being done is incredible. I mean, I should know, I've worked here for 23 years and was a volunteer 6 years before that. Our line staff are amazing people who are helping people with huge challenges (cancer, HIV, isolated seniors, people losing housing, etc.). It's just that RR20 brought out the worst in some folks who have hypnotic voices. It's depressing how right you are when you describe it as a "self-made hell on earth" because it is definitely that sometimes. But the actual work being done, and my own work in training volunteers who have nothing to do with (and have no interest in) the woke bullshit, is basically amazing. I keep holding on because I hope that we will eventually get back to that place of nonjudgmental, empathetic community - that was also tons of fun - that we were before pandemic and before BLM protests. But now we're a place where I have to repeatedly take down definitions of "white supremacist behaviors" before the volunteer trainings I run - posters that anonymously get put up on various walls - so that volunteers don't get the wrong impression of my very non-woke trainings that are basically about being empathetic and open-minded. Ugh!
As a queer person, I enjoy spending time in queer venues. Not as much as as most of my LGB brothers & sisters, but certainly from time to time it's great. If that were my only option, I'd get very agitated or bored, but the feeling of "home" in those spaces is real and palpable. Especially as my circle of friends is basically straight, it's nice to get away, so to speak. As a bi guy, I also like spending time with other bi folks, although this is actually a very rare occasion. Maybe because of the rarity of it, it's exciting when there's more than just one bi guy in a room.
As a mixed-race Filipino/White guy, I love spending time with my Filipino relatives and co-workers and I'm delighted when I get to bond with other mestizos. I don't see a lot of Filipino culture in my day to day life, even here in SF where there is a ton.
Okay, all that said, I wonder what you (and anyone else) thinks about affinity spaces. My feelings are... mixed?
I convened a "POC work group" at my workplace in 2020, at the request of three of my POC staff. (I'm an executive at my agency and they thought it should be started by someone at my level.) So I did. It was an interesting but also irritating experience, for the 4 meetings I was allowed to be there - they asked me and the other two directors in the group to step back so that they could come up with recommendations for the agency and they didn't want their discussion compromised by their various bosses being in the room. I did end up liking their recommendations, surprisingly. The POC group basically faded away after coming up with those recommendations in 2022. Shortly after, some white colleagues started a white affinity space, which was a controversial idea and continues to be one, among both POC & white staff not involved with the group. That group still meets. I'm pretty curious, in sort of a sick way, about what they talk about in that group (Robin DiAngelo? LOL) but I've been told as a mixed-race person, I shouldn't be there. (Context: I identify as mixed-race, as Filipino, and as white.) Which was probably for the best because I can imagine myself being an asshole in that space because of what I imagine to be extremely woke conversations.
Recently there have been noises about creating a "BIPOC" group. I'm so conflicted about joining. I know people expect me to. As a leader of my agency, and as the person who is specifically in charge of "DEI" (one of my many hats, and my least favorite one). But ugh I don't want to. Are they planning on talking about "white supremacy" per Tema Okun and how "whiteness" shows up in our majority-POC agency (LOL)? I think a part of my mulishness is super petty - I actually hate the acronym BIPOC because it feels so unnecessarily othering & diminishing of Asians, Latinos, and people from the Middle East. What a dumb word.
Sorry for all the rambling! It's Sunday night and I'm about to step into this tomorrow, so definitely on my mind. This seemed like a good space to journal!
"As a queer person, I enjoy spending time in queer venues."
Yeah, as I was just saying to Miguelitro, there's an important distinction to be made between cultural groupings and physical characteristic groupings. There's some overlap, of course, but the former is infinitely more valid than the latter.
LGBT-only spaces (sorry, I can't bring myself to embrace the Q-word), culturally specific spaces, religious spaces, I don't think there's any problem with these. But white-only spaces? Or black-only spaces? That's a different animal. Which is why I think they led to controversy. I've given serious thought to creating some kind of "workplace diversity done right" programme.🤔
I also hate the term BIPOC (I wrote an article about it) again, because it links people together who have no real point of connection except that they're not white. I think Asians, Latinos etc. are usually included in BIPOC, no? Anyway, as I've said many times before, humanity probably isn't going to outgrow tribes any time soon. I just wish we were better at making those tribes meaningful.
"sorry, I can't bring myself to embrace the Q-word"
yeah, I hear that. especially nowadays. (also I get why older/boomer gays would resist the word.) I've been using it since the 90s as a catch-all for LGB, so it's just another word for that acronym to me. what makes me want to resist it these days is the frequency of straight people using it to describe themselves. that's kind of a joke to me, worthy of a sneer or at least an eyeroll. I actually got in an argument with my youngest staffer over this usage - I guess it's common in Gen Z? anyway, I think straight people using it is super performative and cringey, akin to calling yourself a demisexual.
"I also hate the term BIPOC (I wrote an article about it) ... I think Asians, Latinos etc. are usually included in BIPOC, no?"
hey can you link to that article? I think I must have missed it.
yep, Asians etc. are included in the catch-all POC part of BIPOC, which is exactly what I find diminishing & othering. at least the standalone "POC", for all its flaws, equalizes all "people of color" rather than uplifting Black & Indigenous as apparently the most important POC, the rest can just be thrown together in the POC part. It's like if "LGBT" was "GaysEtc" - Gays taking precedence, lesbians & bis & trans tossed together into Etc.
"hey can you link to that article? I think I must have missed it."
Hey Mark, sorry for the delay. Here it is. https://steveqj.medium.com/bipoc-is-the-new-ni-er-9c6c76d28d73
And yeah, as with so many other things "queer" has just become a way for people who want to gain a few points on the victimhood hierarchy to claim they're oppressed. Oh, you kissed somebody of the same sex in college or had an open relationship once? Welcome to Q+!!
“sorry, I can't bring myself to embrace the Q word”
You’ll find very few gay men over a certain age who don’t find it as offensive as the N word.
“Queer” is what hundreds, maybe thousands, have had shouted at them as their teeth were knocked out and their noses flattened.
Like the friend I visited in the hospital in 1982, all his incisors gone and one eye damaged to uselessness.
Mark, I would appreciate you not using that vile word. And don’t dick me around with “reclaimed” or “language evolves.” This is a PTSD level issue. My watch tells me my heart rate went to 135 when I read it.
We are gay. We are not queer.
“I also hate the term BIPOC (I wrote an article about it) again, because it links people together who have no real point of connection except that they're”
Same as I feel about everything after “LGB.”
Now they’re even being “inclusive” with prostitutes.
I never heard if anyone pretending to be LGB. But nearly every T is pretending.
Your company truly sounds like a self-made hell on earth. I'm surprised it still exists with all that toxic dysfunction.
Steve, here's a patient for you.
The funny thing is, all of this drama and cope and bullshit basically came out of Racial Reckoning 2020. And mainly from the management and executive levels rather than line staff (of course). The actual work being done is incredible. I mean, I should know, I've worked here for 23 years and was a volunteer 6 years before that. Our line staff are amazing people who are helping people with huge challenges (cancer, HIV, isolated seniors, people losing housing, etc.). It's just that RR20 brought out the worst in some folks who have hypnotic voices. It's depressing how right you are when you describe it as a "self-made hell on earth" because it is definitely that sometimes. But the actual work being done, and my own work in training volunteers who have nothing to do with (and have no interest in) the woke bullshit, is basically amazing. I keep holding on because I hope that we will eventually get back to that place of nonjudgmental, empathetic community - that was also tons of fun - that we were before pandemic and before BLM protests. But now we're a place where I have to repeatedly take down definitions of "white supremacist behaviors" before the volunteer trainings I run - posters that anonymously get put up on various walls - so that volunteers don't get the wrong impression of my very non-woke trainings that are basically about being empathetic and open-minded. Ugh!