Continuing. The thrust of your opening post is to encourage dialogue and civility and mutual understanding, and while I would be wrong to argue against that noble premise *in generality* I think it's irresponsible to counsel love and support and acceptance for something so unhealthy and so alarming.
Continuing. The thrust of your opening post is to encourage dialogue and civility and mutual understanding, and while I would be wrong to argue against that noble premise *in generality* I think it's irresponsible to counsel love and support and acceptance for something so unhealthy and so alarming.
Check it: there are thirteen year old girls getting surgeries happily administered by unscrupulous surgeons who accept a certificate of eligibility easily obtained for a fee over the Internet along with the many thousands of dollars they charge. Sorry but this is not something we should just open our arms in hugs for.
But! If one of these girls goes to a counselor looking for the permission to get sliced, and the counselor decides that she is merely an unhappy person seeking an escape from misery and is not actually dysphoric, *he will be fired*. The imperative to validate everything "trans" is monstrous and I really cannot understand why, even in the name of being kind to one another, you would go along with it.
Even if it's just puberty-blocking hormones and not surgery, these girls are screwing up their bodies for what is very likely just a phase. The law needs to step in.
"I think it's irresponsible to counsel love and support and acceptance for something so unhealthy and so alarming."
Yeah, I agree in the cases where those irresponsible and alarming things are happening to children. As, for example, in the case of 13-year-olds getting double mastectomies. But I don't think this should be extrapolated to trans care in general.
There are many things that people do to their bodies that I find unhealthy and extreme. But they're allowed to do them once they become adults. I think we should use an extremely light touch to determine what adult do with their bodies. And I think we should be careful not to let sensible concerns about children bleed over into opposing treatment for a condition that most of us don't understand.
If men want to take their genitals off with razor blades because they think it'll make them happier that's their business. I was clearly talking about girls many years shy of adulthood and following fads somewhat more consequential than a hair style or a favorite pop singer.
Where we part company on the "condition that most of us don't understand" part is engaging medical practitioners. I read an exchange from one of the social networks that kids use, someone had tracked down the information that would enable a 15yo girl to get a hysterectomy. Go to some web page, tick a few checkboxes, PayPal some money, get a certificate and a lot of surgeons will accept. Fifteen years old. I don't give a damn about understanding the condition, that should get the surgeon twenty years, not twenty grand. A child is incapable of that kind of decision, and young people are too sensitive to peer pressure and conformity to make choices like that.
Adulthood? It's your body to screw up. Knock yourself out, just don't look for sympathy when you end up ruined for life.
And as I keep saying, I think "trans" is at least 90% fad and probably several more nines, and I think that medical practice for such elective interventions needs to be strictly regulated and based on peer-reviewed criteria.
"Reconsidering Informed Consent for Trans-Identified Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults"
"In less than a decade, the western world has witnessed an unprecedented rise in the numbers of children and adolescents seeking gender transition. Despite the precedent of years of gender-affirmative care, the social, medical and surgical interventions are still based on very low-quality evidence. The many risks of these interventions, including medicalizing a temporary adolescent identity, have come into a clearer focus through an awareness of detransitioners."
It's possible. There's a lawsuit in the UK. They're light years ahead of the US in this field. When the lawsuits (possibly) come rolling in, then it will be the butchers who get fired, not the other way around. Then (possibly) the laws will be righted.
Continuing. The thrust of your opening post is to encourage dialogue and civility and mutual understanding, and while I would be wrong to argue against that noble premise *in generality* I think it's irresponsible to counsel love and support and acceptance for something so unhealthy and so alarming.
Check it: there are thirteen year old girls getting surgeries happily administered by unscrupulous surgeons who accept a certificate of eligibility easily obtained for a fee over the Internet along with the many thousands of dollars they charge. Sorry but this is not something we should just open our arms in hugs for.
But! If one of these girls goes to a counselor looking for the permission to get sliced, and the counselor decides that she is merely an unhappy person seeking an escape from misery and is not actually dysphoric, *he will be fired*. The imperative to validate everything "trans" is monstrous and I really cannot understand why, even in the name of being kind to one another, you would go along with it.
Even if it's just puberty-blocking hormones and not surgery, these girls are screwing up their bodies for what is very likely just a phase. The law needs to step in.
"I think it's irresponsible to counsel love and support and acceptance for something so unhealthy and so alarming."
Yeah, I agree in the cases where those irresponsible and alarming things are happening to children. As, for example, in the case of 13-year-olds getting double mastectomies. But I don't think this should be extrapolated to trans care in general.
There are many things that people do to their bodies that I find unhealthy and extreme. But they're allowed to do them once they become adults. I think we should use an extremely light touch to determine what adult do with their bodies. And I think we should be careful not to let sensible concerns about children bleed over into opposing treatment for a condition that most of us don't understand.
If men want to take their genitals off with razor blades because they think it'll make them happier that's their business. I was clearly talking about girls many years shy of adulthood and following fads somewhat more consequential than a hair style or a favorite pop singer.
Where we part company on the "condition that most of us don't understand" part is engaging medical practitioners. I read an exchange from one of the social networks that kids use, someone had tracked down the information that would enable a 15yo girl to get a hysterectomy. Go to some web page, tick a few checkboxes, PayPal some money, get a certificate and a lot of surgeons will accept. Fifteen years old. I don't give a damn about understanding the condition, that should get the surgeon twenty years, not twenty grand. A child is incapable of that kind of decision, and young people are too sensitive to peer pressure and conformity to make choices like that.
Adulthood? It's your body to screw up. Knock yourself out, just don't look for sympathy when you end up ruined for life.
And as I keep saying, I think "trans" is at least 90% fad and probably several more nines, and I think that medical practice for such elective interventions needs to be strictly regulated and based on peer-reviewed criteria.
But then I think the same about virtual reality.
"A child is incapable of that kind of decision, and young people are too sensitive to peer pressure and conformity to make choices like that."
Yep, we've already agreed that this shouldn't be happening to children.
"Reconsidering Informed Consent for Trans-Identified Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults"
"In less than a decade, the western world has witnessed an unprecedented rise in the numbers of children and adolescents seeking gender transition. Despite the precedent of years of gender-affirmative care, the social, medical and surgical interventions are still based on very low-quality evidence. The many risks of these interventions, including medicalizing a temporary adolescent identity, have come into a clearer focus through an awareness of detransitioners."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221
I agree: "Adulthood? It's your body to screw up. Knock yourself out, just don't look for sympathy when you end up ruined for life."
I would just say "if/when" instead-a "when," but that's just me.
"temporary adolescent identity"
If a girl wants to listen to a Korean smile-band that's her business. If she wants to tattoo her face with their album cover, that should be denied.
But now she wants her uterus and breasts removed with as much good cause as listening to BTS: because all her friends do.
It's possible. There's a lawsuit in the UK. They're light years ahead of the US in this field. When the lawsuits (possibly) come rolling in, then it will be the butchers who get fired, not the other way around. Then (possibly) the laws will be righted.