"Tate's popularity is on the decline, as it was always going to be eventually. He's a bottom feeder. "
So then you agree with me that appeals to the bottom?
"I spoke to a really nice guy, in person, a week or so ago. He'd been dating a woman for about seven months, who he really liked and who he thought there was a future with. He was very…
"Tate's popularity is on the decline, as it was always going to be eventually. He's a bottom feeder. "
So then you agree with me that appeals to the bottom?
"I spoke to a really nice guy, in person, a week or so ago. He'd been dating a woman for about seven months, who he really liked and who he thought there was a future with. He was very nice to her, they were about to do the parents meeting thing, and out of nowhere (at least from his perspective) she broke it off.
His immediate perspective, "I need to be less 'nice' to women."
He thought that because he'd been very straightforward about how much he liked this woman and how happy he was to be with her, that he'd driven her away. And that the answer was to withhold his feelings more. "
He could be wrong about this. There's no way he can know for certain what caused her to withdraw and so it's all just speculation.
I stand by what I say about Tate's appeal to the bottom, most base characteristics in the more testosteroned sex, and by the way you reference Tate, you agree.
Some boys and young men are driven by a dominance fantasy and Tate appeals to that in the most crass way.
You still have not addressed why all these years have passed and the Manosphere has done absolutely nothing practical to help boys, like adopting them. Nor have they pooled together to do anything about male homelessness.
"So then you agree with me that appeals to the bottom?"
Well, it depends how you define "bottom." Happy, content, confident, well-adjusted men are obviously not drawn to a man like Tate. But there are many reasons men might nor be happy and confident and well-adjusted.
Tate says a lot of things. He also advocates for men to be strong and driven and find purpose. This isn't bad advice in itself. It's the way one pursues these things that matters. So again, if men feel lost, they'll gravitate towards a man who says, "this is how to not feel lost." And they, like almost everybody, are willing to overlook some things they disagree with if they agree with other things.
Again, none of what I'm saying is a defence of Tate. Literally the very first thing I said to you was that I'm not defending Tate. I'm speaking against this, in my view ridiculous, habit of blaming young men for the worst actions of a few of them throughout history.
"He could be wrong about this."
Yeah, absolutely. I strongly suspect he *is* wrong. A sudden breakup could have many causes, many of which probably have little to do with him. But it's also human nature to try to find an explanation for painful things to avoid a repeat of that pain in future.
And it's true that many women don't want a man to be too "nice." Especially younger women. This puts young men in a difficult position. They're the ones expected to do 90% of the pursuing, following rules that the young women around them set, but that are very difficult for many of them to understand. And, of course, are different for each woman.
I'm pretty confident every man you know can relate to this on some level. Even those who are evolved enough to see through Tate's bullshit.
Pain makes people especially vulnerable to bad ideas. Because they're desperate to avoid that pain again. And it also makes them especially sensitive to attacks. Especially attacks that make absolutely no sense. So again, the point I'm making is that this failure to even try to understand why some young men are struggling, in part, drives some of them towards men like Tate. I'm not saying it's right or good, I'm saying it's inevitable. And frustratingly enough, quite easily avoidable.
"Tate's popularity is on the decline, as it was always going to be eventually. He's a bottom feeder. "
So then you agree with me that appeals to the bottom?
"I spoke to a really nice guy, in person, a week or so ago. He'd been dating a woman for about seven months, who he really liked and who he thought there was a future with. He was very nice to her, they were about to do the parents meeting thing, and out of nowhere (at least from his perspective) she broke it off.
His immediate perspective, "I need to be less 'nice' to women."
He thought that because he'd been very straightforward about how much he liked this woman and how happy he was to be with her, that he'd driven her away. And that the answer was to withhold his feelings more. "
He could be wrong about this. There's no way he can know for certain what caused her to withdraw and so it's all just speculation.
I stand by what I say about Tate's appeal to the bottom, most base characteristics in the more testosteroned sex, and by the way you reference Tate, you agree.
Some boys and young men are driven by a dominance fantasy and Tate appeals to that in the most crass way.
You still have not addressed why all these years have passed and the Manosphere has done absolutely nothing practical to help boys, like adopting them. Nor have they pooled together to do anything about male homelessness.
"So then you agree with me that appeals to the bottom?"
Well, it depends how you define "bottom." Happy, content, confident, well-adjusted men are obviously not drawn to a man like Tate. But there are many reasons men might nor be happy and confident and well-adjusted.
Tate says a lot of things. He also advocates for men to be strong and driven and find purpose. This isn't bad advice in itself. It's the way one pursues these things that matters. So again, if men feel lost, they'll gravitate towards a man who says, "this is how to not feel lost." And they, like almost everybody, are willing to overlook some things they disagree with if they agree with other things.
Again, none of what I'm saying is a defence of Tate. Literally the very first thing I said to you was that I'm not defending Tate. I'm speaking against this, in my view ridiculous, habit of blaming young men for the worst actions of a few of them throughout history.
"He could be wrong about this."
Yeah, absolutely. I strongly suspect he *is* wrong. A sudden breakup could have many causes, many of which probably have little to do with him. But it's also human nature to try to find an explanation for painful things to avoid a repeat of that pain in future.
And it's true that many women don't want a man to be too "nice." Especially younger women. This puts young men in a difficult position. They're the ones expected to do 90% of the pursuing, following rules that the young women around them set, but that are very difficult for many of them to understand. And, of course, are different for each woman.
I'm pretty confident every man you know can relate to this on some level. Even those who are evolved enough to see through Tate's bullshit.
Pain makes people especially vulnerable to bad ideas. Because they're desperate to avoid that pain again. And it also makes them especially sensitive to attacks. Especially attacks that make absolutely no sense. So again, the point I'm making is that this failure to even try to understand why some young men are struggling, in part, drives some of them towards men like Tate. I'm not saying it's right or good, I'm saying it's inevitable. And frustratingly enough, quite easily avoidable.
Young men and women are struggling for the same reasons. But they blame it on different things.