If Palestinians want peace they should rethink who they vote for. Did they *seriously* think Hamas would have been willing to broker a peace deal with Israel? Share the land? Fuck no. They were insane if they believed that. What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things (as they are for all of…
If Palestinians want peace they should rethink who they vote for. Did they *seriously* think Hamas would have been willing to broker a peace deal with Israel? Share the land? Fuck no. They were insane if they believed that. What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things (as they are for all of us, which is why anonymous are the most reliable ones). They remind me of all the morons who voted for Trump, aren't appreciably better off than they were the last time, but delude themselves they are. *And they'll vote for him again*. After all the shit he's pulled. As, I believe, they will again. Happily. So will the Pals, for their vicious psychopaths.
As far as I'm concerned, the hell with a two-state solution. I wouldn't trust the Palestinians if Hamas were removed entirely. Yanno, the Oct. 7 attack has happened before. Google the 1929 Hebron massacre, instigated against Jews by guess who, since neither Israel nor Hamas had been invented yet. The viciousness of the attacks closely resemble Oct. 7, sans the hang gliders.
No, this has a lot less to do with the existence of Israel or abuses of the Palies since 1948. They've had a hate-on for Jews as dictated by their Koran since 632 AD.
"What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things "
How you can be so convinced that all the Palestinian people are genocidal maniacs with a 2,500-year-old "hate-on" for the Jews and simultaneously imagine that they'd lie on an exit poll about wanting peace with Israel is a total mystery to me. Why would they lie? For whom??
Even David Ben-Gurion understood why the Palestinians were angry with Israel. Any sane person in Palestine would be angry with Israel. Thankfully, angry doesn't necessarily mean genocidal. But of course, I've seen so many videos of Palestinians who have lost their parents or their spouses or their children. Both pre and post Oct 7th. Are you surprised that they support the people willing to strike back at those who did the killing?
The only ray of hope, as I said, is that I think almost everybody would prefer to put their anger aside than condemn their children to more of this endless war.
Without a two-state solution, what do you see as the alternative? Because the only other solution I can see (other than sharing the land, which I presume you think is even less workable) is genocide. Is that seriously what you're advocating? You know there are women and children in Gaza too, right?
And yes, there have been plenty of massacres. As I said, there's no meaningful way to look at this conflict without acknowledging that both sides have behaved with inhuman evil over the years. But I mean, look at what happened in Tantura (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ1TAOibLss). Or just the Nakba in general really. These attacks were easily as vicious as Oct 7th. Rape, murder of children, you name it. No hostage taking though. As one of the Israeli soldiers in the video above admits, they just emptied their guns into any civilians they found.
Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th. Maybe he saw the cooperation of civilians in using their homes as rocket sites-- Shin Bet DOES take anonymous tips. Maybe he saw people gathering in the street to get their kicks in on a dragged Israeli hostage. There IS pathology in Gaza, denying it in unrealistic.
"Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th"
*She. Also, I'm currently writing about this. So I'll give you a preview.
Imagine you're a slave in 1830s America. One day, you hear that a man named Nat Turner has launched a slave rebellion. He's moved from house to house, killing masters and recruiting slaves to his cause. So far, he's killed sixty white people, including women and children. This might finally be the moment where you and your fellow slaves get to strike back at the people who have oppressed you for so long. This could be the movement that sets you and your family free.
How do you think you'd feel in this scenario? You might well oppose Turner's methods, of course. You might personally condemn the killing of innocents, assuming that the news you received about the attack even included details about the killing of innocents. But don't you think you'd also be somewhat supportive of his cause? Do you think you might even celebrate the deaths of the people who have oppressed you for years? Who have killed and beaten your friends and family? Whose rule you still have to live under?
In case it needs to be said, I'm not condoning or justifying Hamas. You and I and almost everybody living in the West have the luxury of a very clear, somewhat detached moral view on this. But I can understand why a person living in Gaza is reluctant to condemn them. And I don't think this makes them a homicidal maniac. Again, I think every single one of us would have an issue with Israel (not necessarily Jews, but Israel) if we were born and raised in Gaza.
When slavery ended, many white people were terrified that the former slaves would massacre them. Four million slaves, all of whom had excellent reason to hate white people, were now free. They too saw the slave rebellions as evidence of pathology. Much of the cruelty we saw against black people during this period was a direct result of that fear.
And yet, in reality, nothing happened. The former slaves were too busy trying to live their lives to be interested in a war with white people. All the rhetoric about black people being animals and savages was proven false. Black people, it turns out, were people.
And here's the kicker; if you'd spoken to a white person in 1830 and said, "what should we do about these slave rebellions?" hardly any of them would have given the answer that seems obvious to us now; just free the damn slaves.
Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza. They have a completely unblockaded coast. It is HAMAS who is digging up the water pipes to use as ineffective rockets incapable of targeting military facilities. It is HAMAS who has kept peace agreements from happening. WHY do foreign investors not want to make Gaza the Singapore of the Med? Because of the government in GAZA. Israel does NOTHING to restrict this. Israel, in fact, allowed people to come to Israel for jobs from Gaza.
And I know I'm not supposed to say this, but the dominant religion among the former slaves was far less accommodating of the tactics of Nat Turner than the religion of Gaza is. (And Turner gave excuse to the pro-slavery side, and was counterproductive when looked at cold-bloodedly.)
"Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza"
Yes, this is absolutely true. I've written at length pointing this out. But so is ISRAEL. And ISRAEL have been oppressing them for far longer and far more overtly. Not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank and in Israel itself. The coast is not unblockaded. Access to Gaza is prohibited by sea and air and heavily restricted by land. There's obviously no way for any foreign investor to build anything in Gaza while this is the case. You'll never find me writing a word in defence of Hamas, but the situation in Gaza simply cannot be laid entirely at their feet.
And yes, Turner's actions were definitely counter-productive. Much like Hamas, he brought down suffering on his people's heads for years to come. Slaveowners passed new laws and meted out collective punishments to dissuade future rebellions. And yet many people saw him as a hero. Because he fought their oppressors. That's what I'm trying to explain regarding Palestinian support for Hamas.
Again, when the slaves were freed, even though they didn't condemn Turner, they didn't *become* Nat Turner. Because support for Turner's rebellion (totally understandable) was not support for Turner's tactics (morally reprehensible). The fears you're expressing about Palestinians are exactly the same fears slaveowners expressed about slaves (not comparing you to slaveowners obviously😅).Those fears were even understandable. But they were also totally wrong.
Like I said, the slaves are not comparable to Hamas, because their dominant religion did not command them to seek out white people and kill them. And yes, I know, Islam lived in peace with Jews for centuries in Palestine. But that is not the brand that the Palestinians practice to a large extent-- and why other MUSLIM countries will not take them in.
I’m not comparing the slaves to Hamas. I’m comparing Nat Turner to Hamas. The slaves, in this analogy, are the ordinary Palestinians who are being oppressed and whose oppression is justified, in part, by the actions of extremists.
My point, which people all across this debate are missing, is that the Palestinians are not Hamas sny more than the slaves were Nat Turner.
And yeah, I think we’re all in serious trouble if any of the Abrahamic religions start doing every silly thing written in their books. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of Muslims, Jews and Christians don’t. Again, millions of Muslims live side by side with Jews and Christians and atheists without killing them. Including in Israel.
Actually exponentially more Muslims live side by side with Jews in Israel than in any Muslim nation-- and maybe more than in all of them combined. And in the Western countries, they ain't lookin' so hot right now.
"What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things
How you can be so convinced that all the Palestinian people are genocidal maniacs with a 2,500-year-old "hate-on" for the Jews"
I'm not sure how many support it, and neither do you. The polls are all over the place on this.
"and simultaneously imagine that they'd lie on an exit poll about wanting peace with Israel is a total mystery to me. Why would they lie? For whom??"
If it's anonymous poll, no, they probably wouldn't. If they're being asked by someone else, yeah, they might lie to make themselves look good. Because no one wants to look like a genocidal maniac when you're facing another person or even in a crowd. Do *you* know how these polls are conducted? I don't.
"Are you surprised that they support the people willing to strike back at those who did the killing?" I sure am, when Hamassholes are using them as human shields, taking foreign aid meant to feed and care for them and using it to build rockets and tunnels. Yeah, when they support a party expressly clear on how a Jewless river to sea means kill all the Jews. Yeah, when they said they wanted Hamas to broker a solution when they first elected them and then it didn't happen and then they cheered on Oct 7 and now they're supposedly going to vote for Hamas again, although I don't know if there will be another option. But they had one before and they voted for the genocidists. That's why I compared them to the Trumpers before (although I've said it about those peoples' support for the Republicans overall): No matter how much they get screwed, no matter how badly they're being bombed and slaughtered near out of existence, their grand plan is "Please Israel, may I have some more?"
"The only ray of hope, as I said, is that I think almost everybody would prefer to put their anger aside than condemn their children to more of this endless war." I wish that would happen, but I don't think it will. As Golda Meir put it, I think, "This will only end when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate us." I agree with her assessment.
"Without a two-state solution, what do you see as the alternative?" How do you see that happening when Palestinians keep rejecting it?
What's the alternative? Same-old same-old, I guess. I for one am not interested in hearing about a two-state solution until Hamas is gone and Palestinians have proven, say for 3-5 years, that they can live peacefully with Israel. Although I'm not sure Israel will ever trust them, and I'm not sure they should.
As you note, there've always been plenty of massacres. And the one going on in Gaza now is too impossible to ignore or right off as 'human shields'. Israel is pretty clearly going over the top with this. I don't know what your solution is, Steve, but I don't have one. I don't think there can be one unless both sides can agree to live with each other. There are some giant us-only buttheads in Israel, but there are, I suspect, a helluva lot more on the other side. Bill Maher put it pretty succinctly in his New Rule yesterday: This taking and settling of the land has gone on for many thousands of years, and the only people who can't move on are the Israelis & Palestinians. And these are ancient enmities that go far, far behind the creation of Israel or even the creation of Islam. These are two peoples intertwined with each other's DNA who have hated each other for a very, very long time. I mean, I understand why everyone hated the Israelites in the Old Testament - they were major assholes to their neighbours.
No one has a solution to this, Steve. No one anywhere. I suspect it will end when one side or the other actually succeeds in wiping out the other. Or maybe not, I don't know. No one does. But for the far-seeable future I expect a lot more wholesale murder, brutality, death and destruction on both sides.
There are two problems with any hope of this conflict winding down.
1) The Palestinians are part of an honor-driven society whose treatment has been light-years past what any such culture can simply "move on" from. The young man who carried the headless corpse of his mother out of the rubble of their house is going to grow up to a life dedicated to vengeance, and it would take at least a generation, perhaps two, after Israel withdrew from what remains of Palestine before the memories faded and the old guard died off.
2) I don't know if you have any Israeli friends, but I do, and back in the days of psytrance raves I had a lot more, a lot of the musicians were Israeli. And my best friend from high school married and converted and took the obligatory pilgrimage.
And while the Palis are an honor-driven society, much of Israel is full of itself to a degree that would make Father Coughlin and Heinrich Himmler get sick. They truly believe themselves to be the Master Race, quite different from American rural racism, which is more based on the accurate appraisal of their own inferiority.
Three Israeli hostages are shot and the country is aflame with outrage where the murder of what is now probably 10,000 children didn't raise an eyebrow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh, "they're not all like that." I know that. But the peaceful non-butcherous Israelis aren't running the government, the settlers are, and I don't know how familiar you are with the settlers when I heard one on NPR I had to pull over and calm down. They are utterly vile people. Compared to "Jewish" settlers (most have been unobservant for generations), the Palestinians are saints.
Of course, all this is falling on deaf ears because some 𝑾𝑶𝑴𝒀𝑵 were raped and tortured, likely by people who buried their own children, killed by Israelis for sport.
Hamas should have bombed some settlements, and not raped anyone. Things would be very different right now, as getting the settlers on camera would shatter Israel's self-righteous "self defense" and "right to exist" rationales.
Speaking of insane, it is exactly that to believe that people who have been treated so brutally would, as a people, remain reflective and objective. Probably not one Palestinian in a hundred is two degrees of separation from someone who's been murdered or had their houses bulldozed with five minutes' notice to build another "settlement."
What would be insane is if they voted for someone who vowed anything less.
If Palestinians want peace they should rethink who they vote for. Did they *seriously* think Hamas would have been willing to broker a peace deal with Israel? Share the land? Fuck no. They were insane if they believed that. What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things (as they are for all of us, which is why anonymous are the most reliable ones). They remind me of all the morons who voted for Trump, aren't appreciably better off than they were the last time, but delude themselves they are. *And they'll vote for him again*. After all the shit he's pulled. As, I believe, they will again. Happily. So will the Pals, for their vicious psychopaths.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/wartime-palestinian-poll-shows-surge-hamas-support-close-105619240
As far as I'm concerned, the hell with a two-state solution. I wouldn't trust the Palestinians if Hamas were removed entirely. Yanno, the Oct. 7 attack has happened before. Google the 1929 Hebron massacre, instigated against Jews by guess who, since neither Israel nor Hamas had been invented yet. The viciousness of the attacks closely resemble Oct. 7, sans the hang gliders.
No, this has a lot less to do with the existence of Israel or abuses of the Palies since 1948. They've had a hate-on for Jews as dictated by their Koran since 632 AD.
"What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things "
How you can be so convinced that all the Palestinian people are genocidal maniacs with a 2,500-year-old "hate-on" for the Jews and simultaneously imagine that they'd lie on an exit poll about wanting peace with Israel is a total mystery to me. Why would they lie? For whom??
Even David Ben-Gurion understood why the Palestinians were angry with Israel. Any sane person in Palestine would be angry with Israel. Thankfully, angry doesn't necessarily mean genocidal. But of course, I've seen so many videos of Palestinians who have lost their parents or their spouses or their children. Both pre and post Oct 7th. Are you surprised that they support the people willing to strike back at those who did the killing?
The only ray of hope, as I said, is that I think almost everybody would prefer to put their anger aside than condemn their children to more of this endless war.
Without a two-state solution, what do you see as the alternative? Because the only other solution I can see (other than sharing the land, which I presume you think is even less workable) is genocide. Is that seriously what you're advocating? You know there are women and children in Gaza too, right?
And yes, there have been plenty of massacres. As I said, there's no meaningful way to look at this conflict without acknowledging that both sides have behaved with inhuman evil over the years. But I mean, look at what happened in Tantura (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ1TAOibLss). Or just the Nakba in general really. These attacks were easily as vicious as Oct 7th. Rape, murder of children, you name it. No hostage taking though. As one of the Israeli soldiers in the video above admits, they just emptied their guns into any civilians they found.
Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th. Maybe he saw the cooperation of civilians in using their homes as rocket sites-- Shin Bet DOES take anonymous tips. Maybe he saw people gathering in the street to get their kicks in on a dragged Israeli hostage. There IS pathology in Gaza, denying it in unrealistic.
"Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th"
*She. Also, I'm currently writing about this. So I'll give you a preview.
Imagine you're a slave in 1830s America. One day, you hear that a man named Nat Turner has launched a slave rebellion. He's moved from house to house, killing masters and recruiting slaves to his cause. So far, he's killed sixty white people, including women and children. This might finally be the moment where you and your fellow slaves get to strike back at the people who have oppressed you for so long. This could be the movement that sets you and your family free.
How do you think you'd feel in this scenario? You might well oppose Turner's methods, of course. You might personally condemn the killing of innocents, assuming that the news you received about the attack even included details about the killing of innocents. But don't you think you'd also be somewhat supportive of his cause? Do you think you might even celebrate the deaths of the people who have oppressed you for years? Who have killed and beaten your friends and family? Whose rule you still have to live under?
In case it needs to be said, I'm not condoning or justifying Hamas. You and I and almost everybody living in the West have the luxury of a very clear, somewhat detached moral view on this. But I can understand why a person living in Gaza is reluctant to condemn them. And I don't think this makes them a homicidal maniac. Again, I think every single one of us would have an issue with Israel (not necessarily Jews, but Israel) if we were born and raised in Gaza.
When slavery ended, many white people were terrified that the former slaves would massacre them. Four million slaves, all of whom had excellent reason to hate white people, were now free. They too saw the slave rebellions as evidence of pathology. Much of the cruelty we saw against black people during this period was a direct result of that fear.
And yet, in reality, nothing happened. The former slaves were too busy trying to live their lives to be interested in a war with white people. All the rhetoric about black people being animals and savages was proven false. Black people, it turns out, were people.
And here's the kicker; if you'd spoken to a white person in 1830 and said, "what should we do about these slave rebellions?" hardly any of them would have given the answer that seems obvious to us now; just free the damn slaves.
Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza. They have a completely unblockaded coast. It is HAMAS who is digging up the water pipes to use as ineffective rockets incapable of targeting military facilities. It is HAMAS who has kept peace agreements from happening. WHY do foreign investors not want to make Gaza the Singapore of the Med? Because of the government in GAZA. Israel does NOTHING to restrict this. Israel, in fact, allowed people to come to Israel for jobs from Gaza.
And I know I'm not supposed to say this, but the dominant religion among the former slaves was far less accommodating of the tactics of Nat Turner than the religion of Gaza is. (And Turner gave excuse to the pro-slavery side, and was counterproductive when looked at cold-bloodedly.)
"Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza"
Yes, this is absolutely true. I've written at length pointing this out. But so is ISRAEL. And ISRAEL have been oppressing them for far longer and far more overtly. Not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank and in Israel itself. The coast is not unblockaded. Access to Gaza is prohibited by sea and air and heavily restricted by land. There's obviously no way for any foreign investor to build anything in Gaza while this is the case. You'll never find me writing a word in defence of Hamas, but the situation in Gaza simply cannot be laid entirely at their feet.
And yes, Turner's actions were definitely counter-productive. Much like Hamas, he brought down suffering on his people's heads for years to come. Slaveowners passed new laws and meted out collective punishments to dissuade future rebellions. And yet many people saw him as a hero. Because he fought their oppressors. That's what I'm trying to explain regarding Palestinian support for Hamas.
Again, when the slaves were freed, even though they didn't condemn Turner, they didn't *become* Nat Turner. Because support for Turner's rebellion (totally understandable) was not support for Turner's tactics (morally reprehensible). The fears you're expressing about Palestinians are exactly the same fears slaveowners expressed about slaves (not comparing you to slaveowners obviously😅).Those fears were even understandable. But they were also totally wrong.
Like I said, the slaves are not comparable to Hamas, because their dominant religion did not command them to seek out white people and kill them. And yes, I know, Islam lived in peace with Jews for centuries in Palestine. But that is not the brand that the Palestinians practice to a large extent-- and why other MUSLIM countries will not take them in.
I’m not comparing the slaves to Hamas. I’m comparing Nat Turner to Hamas. The slaves, in this analogy, are the ordinary Palestinians who are being oppressed and whose oppression is justified, in part, by the actions of extremists.
My point, which people all across this debate are missing, is that the Palestinians are not Hamas sny more than the slaves were Nat Turner.
And yeah, I think we’re all in serious trouble if any of the Abrahamic religions start doing every silly thing written in their books. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of Muslims, Jews and Christians don’t. Again, millions of Muslims live side by side with Jews and Christians and atheists without killing them. Including in Israel.
Actually exponentially more Muslims live side by side with Jews in Israel than in any Muslim nation-- and maybe more than in all of them combined. And in the Western countries, they ain't lookin' so hot right now.
“ And in the Western countries, they ain't lookin' so hot right now.”
What do you mean? And what point are you making re: Muslims in Israel?
Merry Christmas by the way😄
And Merry Christmas to you. I love your writing. You are one of only 3 things I subscribe to
"What they tell pollsters and what they actually want/believe are often two different things
How you can be so convinced that all the Palestinian people are genocidal maniacs with a 2,500-year-old "hate-on" for the Jews"
I'm not sure how many support it, and neither do you. The polls are all over the place on this.
"and simultaneously imagine that they'd lie on an exit poll about wanting peace with Israel is a total mystery to me. Why would they lie? For whom??"
If it's anonymous poll, no, they probably wouldn't. If they're being asked by someone else, yeah, they might lie to make themselves look good. Because no one wants to look like a genocidal maniac when you're facing another person or even in a crowd. Do *you* know how these polls are conducted? I don't.
"Are you surprised that they support the people willing to strike back at those who did the killing?" I sure am, when Hamassholes are using them as human shields, taking foreign aid meant to feed and care for them and using it to build rockets and tunnels. Yeah, when they support a party expressly clear on how a Jewless river to sea means kill all the Jews. Yeah, when they said they wanted Hamas to broker a solution when they first elected them and then it didn't happen and then they cheered on Oct 7 and now they're supposedly going to vote for Hamas again, although I don't know if there will be another option. But they had one before and they voted for the genocidists. That's why I compared them to the Trumpers before (although I've said it about those peoples' support for the Republicans overall): No matter how much they get screwed, no matter how badly they're being bombed and slaughtered near out of existence, their grand plan is "Please Israel, may I have some more?"
"The only ray of hope, as I said, is that I think almost everybody would prefer to put their anger aside than condemn their children to more of this endless war." I wish that would happen, but I don't think it will. As Golda Meir put it, I think, "This will only end when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate us." I agree with her assessment.
"Without a two-state solution, what do you see as the alternative?" How do you see that happening when Palestinians keep rejecting it?
What's the alternative? Same-old same-old, I guess. I for one am not interested in hearing about a two-state solution until Hamas is gone and Palestinians have proven, say for 3-5 years, that they can live peacefully with Israel. Although I'm not sure Israel will ever trust them, and I'm not sure they should.
As you note, there've always been plenty of massacres. And the one going on in Gaza now is too impossible to ignore or right off as 'human shields'. Israel is pretty clearly going over the top with this. I don't know what your solution is, Steve, but I don't have one. I don't think there can be one unless both sides can agree to live with each other. There are some giant us-only buttheads in Israel, but there are, I suspect, a helluva lot more on the other side. Bill Maher put it pretty succinctly in his New Rule yesterday: This taking and settling of the land has gone on for many thousands of years, and the only people who can't move on are the Israelis & Palestinians. And these are ancient enmities that go far, far behind the creation of Israel or even the creation of Islam. These are two peoples intertwined with each other's DNA who have hated each other for a very, very long time. I mean, I understand why everyone hated the Israelites in the Old Testament - they were major assholes to their neighbours.
No one has a solution to this, Steve. No one anywhere. I suspect it will end when one side or the other actually succeeds in wiping out the other. Or maybe not, I don't know. No one does. But for the far-seeable future I expect a lot more wholesale murder, brutality, death and destruction on both sides.
There are two problems with any hope of this conflict winding down.
1) The Palestinians are part of an honor-driven society whose treatment has been light-years past what any such culture can simply "move on" from. The young man who carried the headless corpse of his mother out of the rubble of their house is going to grow up to a life dedicated to vengeance, and it would take at least a generation, perhaps two, after Israel withdrew from what remains of Palestine before the memories faded and the old guard died off.
2) I don't know if you have any Israeli friends, but I do, and back in the days of psytrance raves I had a lot more, a lot of the musicians were Israeli. And my best friend from high school married and converted and took the obligatory pilgrimage.
And while the Palis are an honor-driven society, much of Israel is full of itself to a degree that would make Father Coughlin and Heinrich Himmler get sick. They truly believe themselves to be the Master Race, quite different from American rural racism, which is more based on the accurate appraisal of their own inferiority.
Three Israeli hostages are shot and the country is aflame with outrage where the murder of what is now probably 10,000 children didn't raise an eyebrow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh, "they're not all like that." I know that. But the peaceful non-butcherous Israelis aren't running the government, the settlers are, and I don't know how familiar you are with the settlers when I heard one on NPR I had to pull over and calm down. They are utterly vile people. Compared to "Jewish" settlers (most have been unobservant for generations), the Palestinians are saints.
Of course, all this is falling on deaf ears because some 𝑾𝑶𝑴𝒀𝑵 were raped and tortured, likely by people who buried their own children, killed by Israelis for sport.
Hamas should have bombed some settlements, and not raped anyone. Things would be very different right now, as getting the settlers on camera would shatter Israel's self-righteous "self defense" and "right to exist" rationales.
Speaking of insane, it is exactly that to believe that people who have been treated so brutally would, as a people, remain reflective and objective. Probably not one Palestinian in a hundred is two degrees of separation from someone who's been murdered or had their houses bulldozed with five minutes' notice to build another "settlement."
What would be insane is if they voted for someone who vowed anything less.
They aren't the only ones nurturing a hate-on.
I wouldn't want to work with you again, either.