Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th. Maybe he saw the cooperation of civilians in using their homes as rocket sites-- Shin Bet DOES take anonymous tips. Maybe he saw people gathering in the street to get their kicks in on a dragged Israeli hostage. There IS pathology in Gaza, denying it in unrealistic.
Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th. Maybe he saw the cooperation of civilians in using their homes as rocket sites-- Shin Bet DOES take anonymous tips. Maybe he saw people gathering in the street to get their kicks in on a dragged Israeli hostage. There IS pathology in Gaza, denying it in unrealistic.
"Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th"
*She. Also, I'm currently writing about this. So I'll give you a preview.
Imagine you're a slave in 1830s America. One day, you hear that a man named Nat Turner has launched a slave rebellion. He's moved from house to house, killing masters and recruiting slaves to his cause. So far, he's killed sixty white people, including women and children. This might finally be the moment where you and your fellow slaves get to strike back at the people who have oppressed you for so long. This could be the movement that sets you and your family free.
How do you think you'd feel in this scenario? You might well oppose Turner's methods, of course. You might personally condemn the killing of innocents, assuming that the news you received about the attack even included details about the killing of innocents. But don't you think you'd also be somewhat supportive of his cause? Do you think you might even celebrate the deaths of the people who have oppressed you for years? Who have killed and beaten your friends and family? Whose rule you still have to live under?
In case it needs to be said, I'm not condoning or justifying Hamas. You and I and almost everybody living in the West have the luxury of a very clear, somewhat detached moral view on this. But I can understand why a person living in Gaza is reluctant to condemn them. And I don't think this makes them a homicidal maniac. Again, I think every single one of us would have an issue with Israel (not necessarily Jews, but Israel) if we were born and raised in Gaza.
When slavery ended, many white people were terrified that the former slaves would massacre them. Four million slaves, all of whom had excellent reason to hate white people, were now free. They too saw the slave rebellions as evidence of pathology. Much of the cruelty we saw against black people during this period was a direct result of that fear.
And yet, in reality, nothing happened. The former slaves were too busy trying to live their lives to be interested in a war with white people. All the rhetoric about black people being animals and savages was proven false. Black people, it turns out, were people.
And here's the kicker; if you'd spoken to a white person in 1830 and said, "what should we do about these slave rebellions?" hardly any of them would have given the answer that seems obvious to us now; just free the damn slaves.
Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza. They have a completely unblockaded coast. It is HAMAS who is digging up the water pipes to use as ineffective rockets incapable of targeting military facilities. It is HAMAS who has kept peace agreements from happening. WHY do foreign investors not want to make Gaza the Singapore of the Med? Because of the government in GAZA. Israel does NOTHING to restrict this. Israel, in fact, allowed people to come to Israel for jobs from Gaza.
And I know I'm not supposed to say this, but the dominant religion among the former slaves was far less accommodating of the tactics of Nat Turner than the religion of Gaza is. (And Turner gave excuse to the pro-slavery side, and was counterproductive when looked at cold-bloodedly.)
"Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza"
Yes, this is absolutely true. I've written at length pointing this out. But so is ISRAEL. And ISRAEL have been oppressing them for far longer and far more overtly. Not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank and in Israel itself. The coast is not unblockaded. Access to Gaza is prohibited by sea and air and heavily restricted by land. There's obviously no way for any foreign investor to build anything in Gaza while this is the case. You'll never find me writing a word in defence of Hamas, but the situation in Gaza simply cannot be laid entirely at their feet.
And yes, Turner's actions were definitely counter-productive. Much like Hamas, he brought down suffering on his people's heads for years to come. Slaveowners passed new laws and meted out collective punishments to dissuade future rebellions. And yet many people saw him as a hero. Because he fought their oppressors. That's what I'm trying to explain regarding Palestinian support for Hamas.
Again, when the slaves were freed, even though they didn't condemn Turner, they didn't *become* Nat Turner. Because support for Turner's rebellion (totally understandable) was not support for Turner's tactics (morally reprehensible). The fears you're expressing about Palestinians are exactly the same fears slaveowners expressed about slaves (not comparing you to slaveowners obviouslyЁЯШЕ).Those fears were even understandable. But they were also totally wrong.
Like I said, the slaves are not comparable to Hamas, because their dominant religion did not command them to seek out white people and kill them. And yes, I know, Islam lived in peace with Jews for centuries in Palestine. But that is not the brand that the Palestinians practice to a large extent-- and why other MUSLIM countries will not take them in.
IтАЩm not comparing the slaves to Hamas. IтАЩm comparing Nat Turner to Hamas. The slaves, in this analogy, are the ordinary Palestinians who are being oppressed and whose oppression is justified, in part, by the actions of extremists.
My point, which people all across this debate are missing, is that the Palestinians are not Hamas sny more than the slaves were Nat Turner.
And yeah, I think weтАЩre all in serious trouble if any of the Abrahamic religions start doing every silly thing written in their books. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of Muslims, Jews and Christians donтАЩt. Again, millions of Muslims live side by side with Jews and Christians and atheists without killing them. Including in Israel.
Actually exponentially more Muslims live side by side with Jews in Israel than in any Muslim nation-- and maybe more than in all of them combined. And in the Western countries, they ain't lookin' so hot right now.
Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th. Maybe he saw the cooperation of civilians in using their homes as rocket sites-- Shin Bet DOES take anonymous tips. Maybe he saw people gathering in the street to get their kicks in on a dragged Israeli hostage. There IS pathology in Gaza, denying it in unrealistic.
"Maybe he notices the mass celebrations in Gaza on October 7th and 8th"
*She. Also, I'm currently writing about this. So I'll give you a preview.
Imagine you're a slave in 1830s America. One day, you hear that a man named Nat Turner has launched a slave rebellion. He's moved from house to house, killing masters and recruiting slaves to his cause. So far, he's killed sixty white people, including women and children. This might finally be the moment where you and your fellow slaves get to strike back at the people who have oppressed you for so long. This could be the movement that sets you and your family free.
How do you think you'd feel in this scenario? You might well oppose Turner's methods, of course. You might personally condemn the killing of innocents, assuming that the news you received about the attack even included details about the killing of innocents. But don't you think you'd also be somewhat supportive of his cause? Do you think you might even celebrate the deaths of the people who have oppressed you for years? Who have killed and beaten your friends and family? Whose rule you still have to live under?
In case it needs to be said, I'm not condoning or justifying Hamas. You and I and almost everybody living in the West have the luxury of a very clear, somewhat detached moral view on this. But I can understand why a person living in Gaza is reluctant to condemn them. And I don't think this makes them a homicidal maniac. Again, I think every single one of us would have an issue with Israel (not necessarily Jews, but Israel) if we were born and raised in Gaza.
When slavery ended, many white people were terrified that the former slaves would massacre them. Four million slaves, all of whom had excellent reason to hate white people, were now free. They too saw the slave rebellions as evidence of pathology. Much of the cruelty we saw against black people during this period was a direct result of that fear.
And yet, in reality, nothing happened. The former slaves were too busy trying to live their lives to be interested in a war with white people. All the rhetoric about black people being animals and savages was proven false. Black people, it turns out, were people.
And here's the kicker; if you'd spoken to a white person in 1830 and said, "what should we do about these slave rebellions?" hardly any of them would have given the answer that seems obvious to us now; just free the damn slaves.
Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza. They have a completely unblockaded coast. It is HAMAS who is digging up the water pipes to use as ineffective rockets incapable of targeting military facilities. It is HAMAS who has kept peace agreements from happening. WHY do foreign investors not want to make Gaza the Singapore of the Med? Because of the government in GAZA. Israel does NOTHING to restrict this. Israel, in fact, allowed people to come to Israel for jobs from Gaza.
And I know I'm not supposed to say this, but the dominant religion among the former slaves was far less accommodating of the tactics of Nat Turner than the religion of Gaza is. (And Turner gave excuse to the pro-slavery side, and was counterproductive when looked at cold-bloodedly.)
"Except here's the thing: it is HAMAS oppressing the people of Gaza"
Yes, this is absolutely true. I've written at length pointing this out. But so is ISRAEL. And ISRAEL have been oppressing them for far longer and far more overtly. Not only in Gaza, but in the West Bank and in Israel itself. The coast is not unblockaded. Access to Gaza is prohibited by sea and air and heavily restricted by land. There's obviously no way for any foreign investor to build anything in Gaza while this is the case. You'll never find me writing a word in defence of Hamas, but the situation in Gaza simply cannot be laid entirely at their feet.
And yes, Turner's actions were definitely counter-productive. Much like Hamas, he brought down suffering on his people's heads for years to come. Slaveowners passed new laws and meted out collective punishments to dissuade future rebellions. And yet many people saw him as a hero. Because he fought their oppressors. That's what I'm trying to explain regarding Palestinian support for Hamas.
Again, when the slaves were freed, even though they didn't condemn Turner, they didn't *become* Nat Turner. Because support for Turner's rebellion (totally understandable) was not support for Turner's tactics (morally reprehensible). The fears you're expressing about Palestinians are exactly the same fears slaveowners expressed about slaves (not comparing you to slaveowners obviouslyЁЯШЕ).Those fears were even understandable. But they were also totally wrong.
Like I said, the slaves are not comparable to Hamas, because their dominant religion did not command them to seek out white people and kill them. And yes, I know, Islam lived in peace with Jews for centuries in Palestine. But that is not the brand that the Palestinians practice to a large extent-- and why other MUSLIM countries will not take them in.
IтАЩm not comparing the slaves to Hamas. IтАЩm comparing Nat Turner to Hamas. The slaves, in this analogy, are the ordinary Palestinians who are being oppressed and whose oppression is justified, in part, by the actions of extremists.
My point, which people all across this debate are missing, is that the Palestinians are not Hamas sny more than the slaves were Nat Turner.
And yeah, I think weтАЩre all in serious trouble if any of the Abrahamic religions start doing every silly thing written in their books. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of Muslims, Jews and Christians donтАЩt. Again, millions of Muslims live side by side with Jews and Christians and atheists without killing them. Including in Israel.
Actually exponentially more Muslims live side by side with Jews in Israel than in any Muslim nation-- and maybe more than in all of them combined. And in the Western countries, they ain't lookin' so hot right now.
тАЬ And in the Western countries, they ain't lookin' so hot right now.тАЭ
What do you mean? And what point are you making re: Muslims in Israel?
Merry Christmas by the wayЁЯШД
And Merry Christmas to you. I love your writing. You are one of only 3 things I subscribe to