This commenter did get one thing right. Storytelling is sometimes a more effective, and more legitimate, means of persuasion than logical arguments. Logical reasoning always has to start somewhere. It usually begins with a range of shared experiences that both parties take for granted, and often don’t even mention. In a legal brief, ea…
This commenter did get one thing right. Storytelling is sometimes a more effective, and more legitimate, means of persuasion than logical arguments. Logical reasoning always has to start somewhere. It usually begins with a range of shared experiences that both parties take for granted, and often don’t even mention. In a legal brief, each side always begins with a list of alleged facts, and can’t proceed into the arguments before those facts are agreed upon. Any real life written argument will contain not just premises and conclusions, but background stories which are necessary for the argument to be comprehensible at all.
If there is a lack of shared background experience between two people, they will talk past each other if they try to communicate with argument alone. This is what prompts many marginalized people to dismiss the arguments of privileged people with the ad hominem “your argument should be ignored because you are white, male etc.” Under certain circumstances, I think this response has some validity. (And I say this as someone who has so much privilege that I will never be entitled to make that response myself.) If the privileged person’s response shows a sufficient level of cluelessness, it will be obvious that any attempt to communicate using argument alone will be futile.
I believe, however, that in such circumstances you can sometimes change people’s minds with stories, even when arguments will be futile. That’s because stories can create a simulation of the background experiences that underlie the premises of any arguments about that topic. To illustrate that point, let me tell you a story.
For years, I’ve been annoyed by the complaints about the “Magic Negro” trope. Those complaints seem to be a perfect example of the principle that “if you spend your whole life as a nail, everything looks like a hammer.” If you show a black person as being stupid, he’s Jim Crow. If you show him as being smart, he’s a Magic Negro. So what is the preferred alternative? There’s nothing left. Some Black people are going to get pissed off no matter how they see themselves represented on the screen, and they’ll get even more pissed off if they’re not represented at all. It’s understandable that everything looks like a hammer from their perspective, but that doesn’t mean everything actually is a hammer.
That’s pretty darn good argument-- a disjunctive syllogism to be precise. But it got completely blown out of the water when I saw this comedy sketch by Key and Peele.
After I saw this sketch, I was able to actually feel, at least vicariously, why the Magic Negro trope is so annoying to so many black people, and that radically changed all of my thinking about the topic. There were no arguments in the sketch. It just slightly exaggerated how the trope is usually played, so I could be annoyed even though I had no skin in the game. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist that one). Several new arguments did come to mind for me as a result of having seen this. I think the real issue is that these characters don’t have any back story of their own, not the fact that they were wise. I think that if there were more stories with black protagonists, fewer Black people would get upset about those movies in which Black people were only sidekicks and gurus. I don’t want to develop that point any further here, however, because my point is that it was the story, not any argument, that enabled me to think outside the box of my original argument.
I think you are already aware of this, Steve, because you have already written (at least) two stories for Medium which are persuasive in this way.
You do explain your point with something like arguments at the end of each story, but the stories are still persuasive on their own. And that, I think, was the goal of the commenter who said “your privilege is showing.” He thought that the only reason you don’t accept every chapter and verse of the Book of Woke is that you are blinded by privilege, and think you couldn’t possibly have privilege because you are black. So the commenter figured if he told you the story of how a Mexican could have privilege somewhere and not have it somewhere else, the scales would fall from your eyes and you wouldn’t hate wokeness any more. That’s a pretty dumb strategy, but I think that’s what he was shooting for.
"Storytelling is sometimes a more effective, and more legitimate, means of persuasion than logical arguments."
Oh absolutely, I'd argue that storytelling is the *most* effective means of persuasion. And yes, I definitely use it. The point is, a) I have some knowledge of the subject that I'm writing the story about (Jas knows nothing about me, so her stories about herself are just projections rather than anything likely to be useful to me) and b) stories are a *supplement* to reasoned arguments. They don't replace them.
My stories that you linked wouldn't have had the impact they did if I simply said "Hey, here's some stuff that happened to me. Be inspired by my wisdom.😅 I'm talking about pain and emotions that I understand well, and then using my story to frame real world events related to those feelings. Feelings that, in various ways, I know lots of black people can relate to.
If Jas had even attempted to do this, we might have had an interesting discussion. But as you can see, when I *tried* to make this happen, when I pressed for the reasoned argument portion of her argument, Jas suddenly had less to say (or rather, continued to say things about herself). Not to mention that I've argued numerous times, including in this conversation, that black people can and do have privileges, and that this should be recognised. Pretending that white privilege is the only game in town is actually highly disempowering in my opinion.
This commenter did get one thing right. Storytelling is sometimes a more effective, and more legitimate, means of persuasion than logical arguments. Logical reasoning always has to start somewhere. It usually begins with a range of shared experiences that both parties take for granted, and often don’t even mention. In a legal brief, each side always begins with a list of alleged facts, and can’t proceed into the arguments before those facts are agreed upon. Any real life written argument will contain not just premises and conclusions, but background stories which are necessary for the argument to be comprehensible at all.
If there is a lack of shared background experience between two people, they will talk past each other if they try to communicate with argument alone. This is what prompts many marginalized people to dismiss the arguments of privileged people with the ad hominem “your argument should be ignored because you are white, male etc.” Under certain circumstances, I think this response has some validity. (And I say this as someone who has so much privilege that I will never be entitled to make that response myself.) If the privileged person’s response shows a sufficient level of cluelessness, it will be obvious that any attempt to communicate using argument alone will be futile.
I believe, however, that in such circumstances you can sometimes change people’s minds with stories, even when arguments will be futile. That’s because stories can create a simulation of the background experiences that underlie the premises of any arguments about that topic. To illustrate that point, let me tell you a story.
For years, I’ve been annoyed by the complaints about the “Magic Negro” trope. Those complaints seem to be a perfect example of the principle that “if you spend your whole life as a nail, everything looks like a hammer.” If you show a black person as being stupid, he’s Jim Crow. If you show him as being smart, he’s a Magic Negro. So what is the preferred alternative? There’s nothing left. Some Black people are going to get pissed off no matter how they see themselves represented on the screen, and they’ll get even more pissed off if they’re not represented at all. It’s understandable that everything looks like a hammer from their perspective, but that doesn’t mean everything actually is a hammer.
That’s pretty darn good argument-- a disjunctive syllogism to be precise. But it got completely blown out of the water when I saw this comedy sketch by Key and Peele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInlO6-JTww
After I saw this sketch, I was able to actually feel, at least vicariously, why the Magic Negro trope is so annoying to so many black people, and that radically changed all of my thinking about the topic. There were no arguments in the sketch. It just slightly exaggerated how the trope is usually played, so I could be annoyed even though I had no skin in the game. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist that one). Several new arguments did come to mind for me as a result of having seen this. I think the real issue is that these characters don’t have any back story of their own, not the fact that they were wise. I think that if there were more stories with black protagonists, fewer Black people would get upset about those movies in which Black people were only sidekicks and gurus. I don’t want to develop that point any further here, however, because my point is that it was the story, not any argument, that enabled me to think outside the box of my original argument.
I think you are already aware of this, Steve, because you have already written (at least) two stories for Medium which are persuasive in this way.
https://steveqj.medium.com/?p=c0ab4a39c7bc
https://level.medium.com/this-is-the-way-the-n-word-dies-ab51167bf9d0
You do explain your point with something like arguments at the end of each story, but the stories are still persuasive on their own. And that, I think, was the goal of the commenter who said “your privilege is showing.” He thought that the only reason you don’t accept every chapter and verse of the Book of Woke is that you are blinded by privilege, and think you couldn’t possibly have privilege because you are black. So the commenter figured if he told you the story of how a Mexican could have privilege somewhere and not have it somewhere else, the scales would fall from your eyes and you wouldn’t hate wokeness any more. That’s a pretty dumb strategy, but I think that’s what he was shooting for.
"Storytelling is sometimes a more effective, and more legitimate, means of persuasion than logical arguments."
Oh absolutely, I'd argue that storytelling is the *most* effective means of persuasion. And yes, I definitely use it. The point is, a) I have some knowledge of the subject that I'm writing the story about (Jas knows nothing about me, so her stories about herself are just projections rather than anything likely to be useful to me) and b) stories are a *supplement* to reasoned arguments. They don't replace them.
My stories that you linked wouldn't have had the impact they did if I simply said "Hey, here's some stuff that happened to me. Be inspired by my wisdom.😅 I'm talking about pain and emotions that I understand well, and then using my story to frame real world events related to those feelings. Feelings that, in various ways, I know lots of black people can relate to.
If Jas had even attempted to do this, we might have had an interesting discussion. But as you can see, when I *tried* to make this happen, when I pressed for the reasoned argument portion of her argument, Jas suddenly had less to say (or rather, continued to say things about herself). Not to mention that I've argued numerous times, including in this conversation, that black people can and do have privileges, and that this should be recognised. Pretending that white privilege is the only game in town is actually highly disempowering in my opinion.