"I want to share something about myself here, so it doesn't look like a personal attack"
No, this doesn't look like a personal attack. It never has! I think you're really misinterpreting me here.
I don't think you're trying to minimise the horrors of the Atlantic slave trade. I don't think you're attacking Nicole or me. I think you're demanding "truth" where there's no truth to be found. This is a matter of *opinion*.
I'm not at all wedded to that opinion. Nor, it seems, is Nicole, but you seem extremely wedded to changing that opinion.
Your comparison to the Russian invasion fails precisely because it's not mere opinion. We can directly examine evidence. We can look at wars, happening today, choose whatever metrics we want, and get a clear answer. And as you say, that answer might impact current policy.
None of this is true for slavery. And I don't think the suggestion that The Atlantic slave trade is the most brutal is "inflammatory" (inflammatory to whom?). Or rather, I see no reason that it might be other than the reasons I've already mentioned. And, for reasons I've also already mentioned, I see no particular value in devoting the time to prove or disprove it. This might just be due to our differing experiences of how often it's said. But I see no way in which the brutality ranking will affect policy.
If you object to me "jumping in," I apologise. I wasn't trying to derail your conversation. Nicole *has* replied to your question. As I said, I've spent a lot of time learning about The Atlantic slave trade, so I thought I might be able to provide some useful information that I don't think is weak. You do. That's totally fair. But you seem to be expecting me to become *unconvinced* (to the extremely minor degree that I am), because *you're* not convinced. I didn't just read a single article that I can link for you. As I said, I've read far more about slavery than I care to. Over many years.
And despite that, I *don't* rank them. That's the very first thing I said in my response. So if you're trying to convince me not to, that was already settled in the very first reply!😅
We have agreed for some while that asserting that "US slavery was far more brutal than any other form" is an unhelpful opinion, because such ranking *should*, ideally, play no place in policy making, and because meaningfully making such rankings would be difficult and require unbiased expertise. I've made that that I don't support making any contrary assertion either, for the same reasons. Not making the comparison seems to be optimum for both of us. OK?
The difference is that I was suggesting that an additional reason to avoid promulgating such opinions is that their truth value is highly suspect, absent some analysis that supported the comparison, UNLESS there is some good source. My opening was:
> "I would be interested in solid sources for the belief that 'the American slave trade was far more brutal system than slave cultures anywhere else'. "
I'm still open to any evidence supporting such a comparison, because other people keep making it.
But since, for other reasons, we agree that such assertions are unhelpful, there's nothing further to discuss here. Let's agree to agree.
"I want to share something about myself here, so it doesn't look like a personal attack"
No, this doesn't look like a personal attack. It never has! I think you're really misinterpreting me here.
I don't think you're trying to minimise the horrors of the Atlantic slave trade. I don't think you're attacking Nicole or me. I think you're demanding "truth" where there's no truth to be found. This is a matter of *opinion*.
I'm not at all wedded to that opinion. Nor, it seems, is Nicole, but you seem extremely wedded to changing that opinion.
Your comparison to the Russian invasion fails precisely because it's not mere opinion. We can directly examine evidence. We can look at wars, happening today, choose whatever metrics we want, and get a clear answer. And as you say, that answer might impact current policy.
None of this is true for slavery. And I don't think the suggestion that The Atlantic slave trade is the most brutal is "inflammatory" (inflammatory to whom?). Or rather, I see no reason that it might be other than the reasons I've already mentioned. And, for reasons I've also already mentioned, I see no particular value in devoting the time to prove or disprove it. This might just be due to our differing experiences of how often it's said. But I see no way in which the brutality ranking will affect policy.
If you object to me "jumping in," I apologise. I wasn't trying to derail your conversation. Nicole *has* replied to your question. As I said, I've spent a lot of time learning about The Atlantic slave trade, so I thought I might be able to provide some useful information that I don't think is weak. You do. That's totally fair. But you seem to be expecting me to become *unconvinced* (to the extremely minor degree that I am), because *you're* not convinced. I didn't just read a single article that I can link for you. As I said, I've read far more about slavery than I care to. Over many years.
And despite that, I *don't* rank them. That's the very first thing I said in my response. So if you're trying to convince me not to, that was already settled in the very first reply!😅
We have agreed for some while that asserting that "US slavery was far more brutal than any other form" is an unhelpful opinion, because such ranking *should*, ideally, play no place in policy making, and because meaningfully making such rankings would be difficult and require unbiased expertise. I've made that that I don't support making any contrary assertion either, for the same reasons. Not making the comparison seems to be optimum for both of us. OK?
The difference is that I was suggesting that an additional reason to avoid promulgating such opinions is that their truth value is highly suspect, absent some analysis that supported the comparison, UNLESS there is some good source. My opening was:
> "I would be interested in solid sources for the belief that 'the American slave trade was far more brutal system than slave cultures anywhere else'. "
I'm still open to any evidence supporting such a comparison, because other people keep making it.
But since, for other reasons, we agree that such assertions are unhelpful, there's nothing further to discuss here. Let's agree to agree.