Jason, you are a provocateur. You burst in here throwing insults and goads and most of us instantly regarded you as a troll, not that everyone made a point of saying so.
At this point your welcome is worn out; if you really want a serious discussion, and I honestly don't believe you do, but then I am a clinically angry son of a bitch myself and have little room to judge.
Steve is one of the most equanimous and fair people I have ever run into online, and if he is exasperated with you ... well.
But in the event I am wrong about your veracity, I would recommend you create a new account, make no reference to the Jason one, and start over.
"I only was responding to SteveтАЩs demeaning attacks that I know nothing and have no curiosity."
Once again, I didn't say this. I also told you that I've spent many years living in America. And that most of my family still ives there. My knowledge isn't from the internet. I've had many, many first person conversations with people who lived through Jim Crow. My grandparents on my father and mother's side, many of my aunts and uncles. I've heard countless stories that you won't find on the internet. I'm extremely confident that I've got far more direct experience of racism in America, both past and present, than you have. Plus the fact that I've spent the past two years writing and intensively researching race and race history. Who should be deferring here?
But of course your reductive, ill-informed arguments about me don't count as disrespectful, right?
And frankly, even if I'd never spent a single minute in America, this idea that "plenty of people identify as black for the 'benefits'" or that Obama being black was advantageous for him in his presidential run, made it immediately clear that you aren't a reliable source of information about race in America.
Man, I've really only been lightly frustrated by your arguments until this point. But outright dishonesty really gets me.
I'm old enough to have born personal witness to a great deal of pre-civil rights racism. I was also the white man at the bid whist table that became well enough known by the black people around me (late 70s-early 80s Georgia) that old people who experienced worse (including cross burnings and gunfire) became comfortable enough to talk honestly to me about it. In the case of one old woman who made her low opinion of white men known to me, I think she got some satisfaction in putting that in my face. She needed that so I listened to her and accepted it.
I think that one reason that I was accepted is that when I showed up at the table a coarse and intimidating man stated his bid and I said, "You can't make that. I pass." He looked me right in the eye and said, "Ain't no white MFer gonna set me." It got quiet. When I slapped the set card in front of him I said, "You're set MFer. Get up!" (hot seat) More quiet. I didn't let him intimidate me and run me off. That's how men gained each other's respect in those days. As equals. There was no white privilege or respect in his challenge. That came after. We weren't going to fight in the break room, but we didn't have a parking lot meeting either.
I just wrote and erased some of it because it's most likely what you were told by reliable witness to Jim Crow. As you wrote, not internet stuff.
"She needed that so I listened to her and accepted it."
Oof, yeah, I've met more than my fair share of angry black people. Especially the older generation. 60s and up. Some of them just went through too much to fully get over it. I have little doubt that if I'd grown up in the sixties it would be hard for me to trust white people.
You've been here long enough to remember my conversations with Ray, right? I'm sad I couldn't get through to him, but I'm also not that surprised. Some of the stories I've heard honestly make me tear up thinking about them.
For the last time, there is a difference between honest feedback and an attack. You have been dishonest above. You are ill-informed about me. It is not an attack to acknowledge this. If you want to be immune from all criticism, be a better person.
Jason, you are a provocateur. You burst in here throwing insults and goads and most of us instantly regarded you as a troll, not that everyone made a point of saying so.
At this point your welcome is worn out; if you really want a serious discussion, and I honestly don't believe you do, but then I am a clinically angry son of a bitch myself and have little room to judge.
Steve is one of the most equanimous and fair people I have ever run into online, and if he is exasperated with you ... well.
But in the event I am wrong about your veracity, I would recommend you create a new account, make no reference to the Jason one, and start over.
Much appreciated Chris.
"I only was responding to SteveтАЩs demeaning attacks that I know nothing and have no curiosity."
Once again, I didn't say this. I also told you that I've spent many years living in America. And that most of my family still ives there. My knowledge isn't from the internet. I've had many, many first person conversations with people who lived through Jim Crow. My grandparents on my father and mother's side, many of my aunts and uncles. I've heard countless stories that you won't find on the internet. I'm extremely confident that I've got far more direct experience of racism in America, both past and present, than you have. Plus the fact that I've spent the past two years writing and intensively researching race and race history. Who should be deferring here?
But of course your reductive, ill-informed arguments about me don't count as disrespectful, right?
And frankly, even if I'd never spent a single minute in America, this idea that "plenty of people identify as black for the 'benefits'" or that Obama being black was advantageous for him in his presidential run, made it immediately clear that you aren't a reliable source of information about race in America.
Man, I've really only been lightly frustrated by your arguments until this point. But outright dishonesty really gets me.
I'm old enough to have born personal witness to a great deal of pre-civil rights racism. I was also the white man at the bid whist table that became well enough known by the black people around me (late 70s-early 80s Georgia) that old people who experienced worse (including cross burnings and gunfire) became comfortable enough to talk honestly to me about it. In the case of one old woman who made her low opinion of white men known to me, I think she got some satisfaction in putting that in my face. She needed that so I listened to her and accepted it.
I think that one reason that I was accepted is that when I showed up at the table a coarse and intimidating man stated his bid and I said, "You can't make that. I pass." He looked me right in the eye and said, "Ain't no white MFer gonna set me." It got quiet. When I slapped the set card in front of him I said, "You're set MFer. Get up!" (hot seat) More quiet. I didn't let him intimidate me and run me off. That's how men gained each other's respect in those days. As equals. There was no white privilege or respect in his challenge. That came after. We weren't going to fight in the break room, but we didn't have a parking lot meeting either.
I just wrote and erased some of it because it's most likely what you were told by reliable witness to Jim Crow. As you wrote, not internet stuff.
"She needed that so I listened to her and accepted it."
Oof, yeah, I've met more than my fair share of angry black people. Especially the older generation. 60s and up. Some of them just went through too much to fully get over it. I have little doubt that if I'd grown up in the sixties it would be hard for me to trust white people.
You've been here long enough to remember my conversations with Ray, right? I'm sad I couldn't get through to him, but I'm also not that surprised. Some of the stories I've heard honestly make me tear up thinking about them.
"Those are not a personal attack"
For the last time, there is a difference between honest feedback and an attack. You have been dishonest above. You are ill-informed about me. It is not an attack to acknowledge this. If you want to be immune from all criticism, be a better person.