You can Google “James Byrd lynching” for numerous others. You could do the same for Ahmaud Arbery. Yes, I know what strange fruit was about. I don’t think anybody ever claimed it was a definitive definition of lynching. Did you notice the word “often” in that wall quote?
Man, this isn’t a presidential debate. What exactly do you feel like the stakes of this conversation are? I’m not pulling rank, I’m not lecturing you. Forget my skin colour, I’m somebody who has spent years writing and learning about race and race history. I’ve had thousands of conversations about it with black and white people (come on now, I’m not bragging, but do you seriously think you’ve spent as much time as I have on this topic? Really?). Where’s your decorum? Where’s your respect?
I’m not arguing that black Americans, as a population, want to be white. That would be ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as saying that white Americans want to be black.
I’m saying, and showing you with the testimony of real
human beings, that just as with members of any marginalised group, some black people have wished they didn’t face the discrimination levelled at their group. That usually means being part of the majority group instead.
Finally, and I mean this with no disrespect, your insights aren’t different. I’ve heard them from hundreds of people I’ve already spoken to. They’re the insights of somebody who has given a great deal of thought to how racial discourse impacts white people in America and very little thought to how racism affects black people in America.
They’re the insights of somebody who is sick and tired of being told that they’re racist simply because of the colour of their skin, this is perfectly understandable. But who hasn’t truly considered that some of the pushback they receive isn’t about the colour of their skin but the fact that they do have some racist attitudes.
They’re the insights of somebody who treats the idea that racism affects black people as an accusation they need to defend themselves from.
So sure, here’s a question: why do you think you receive the pushback you do for your insights? Not just from black people either.
"Steve, I don’t generally get pushback from black people"
You're the one told me you have black people trying to "pull rank" on you. I'd categorise that as pushback. Man, I'm not finger wagging. I'm not bullying you. I'm not asking you to submit. This is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm not interested in compliments if they're followed up with rudeness and, especially, mischaracterisations. I'm not perfect. I've never claimed to be. If you have a problem with something I've actually said, not your misreading, let me know, and I'll apologise. As I already did about the Fox News comment. But don't lie about me. And don't play the victim when you've been quite rude over the course of this conversation.
If you think I have nothing of value to say because I'm not American enough for you, no problem. Let's just drop it in that case. Again, just for the record, *this* is an ad hominem.
"I have tried repeatedly to deescalate, every single time. I’ve said we need treat each other like we are sitting at the table."
It seems that your version is deescalating is demanding respect that you've repeatedly refused to show me and misinterpreting my words to paint yourself as a victim. Maybe not the best strategy.
Here's an idea, try recognising that your behaviour here has been far from perfect. It's obviously not only me who noticed this.
Try re-reading your posts and thinking how they might come across to you if our positions were reversed. Try re-reading *my* posts and recognising that I've not directed any personal attacks at you. I made an unfair comment about Fox News, and apologised. This alone is far more grace than you've shown.
I am nice. I'm pretty well known for it. But not to people who aren't nice in return. And especially, as I've said, to people who mischaracterise me. That I won't stand for.
“Wikipedia is your source? Give me a historic headline about a lynching that wasn’t a hanging.”
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/john-william-king-executed-in-infamous-lynching-case-said-attorneys-had-violated-his-right-to-present-innocence-defense
You can Google “James Byrd lynching” for numerous others. You could do the same for Ahmaud Arbery. Yes, I know what strange fruit was about. I don’t think anybody ever claimed it was a definitive definition of lynching. Did you notice the word “often” in that wall quote?
Man, this isn’t a presidential debate. What exactly do you feel like the stakes of this conversation are? I’m not pulling rank, I’m not lecturing you. Forget my skin colour, I’m somebody who has spent years writing and learning about race and race history. I’ve had thousands of conversations about it with black and white people (come on now, I’m not bragging, but do you seriously think you’ve spent as much time as I have on this topic? Really?). Where’s your decorum? Where’s your respect?
I’m not arguing that black Americans, as a population, want to be white. That would be ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as saying that white Americans want to be black.
I’m saying, and showing you with the testimony of real
human beings, that just as with members of any marginalised group, some black people have wished they didn’t face the discrimination levelled at their group. That usually means being part of the majority group instead.
Finally, and I mean this with no disrespect, your insights aren’t different. I’ve heard them from hundreds of people I’ve already spoken to. They’re the insights of somebody who has given a great deal of thought to how racial discourse impacts white people in America and very little thought to how racism affects black people in America.
They’re the insights of somebody who is sick and tired of being told that they’re racist simply because of the colour of their skin, this is perfectly understandable. But who hasn’t truly considered that some of the pushback they receive isn’t about the colour of their skin but the fact that they do have some racist attitudes.
They’re the insights of somebody who treats the idea that racism affects black people as an accusation they need to defend themselves from.
So sure, here’s a question: why do you think you receive the pushback you do for your insights? Not just from black people either.
"Steve, I don’t generally get pushback from black people"
You're the one told me you have black people trying to "pull rank" on you. I'd categorise that as pushback. Man, I'm not finger wagging. I'm not bullying you. I'm not asking you to submit. This is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm not interested in compliments if they're followed up with rudeness and, especially, mischaracterisations. I'm not perfect. I've never claimed to be. If you have a problem with something I've actually said, not your misreading, let me know, and I'll apologise. As I already did about the Fox News comment. But don't lie about me. And don't play the victim when you've been quite rude over the course of this conversation.
If you think I have nothing of value to say because I'm not American enough for you, no problem. Let's just drop it in that case. Again, just for the record, *this* is an ad hominem.
"I have tried repeatedly to deescalate, every single time. I’ve said we need treat each other like we are sitting at the table."
It seems that your version is deescalating is demanding respect that you've repeatedly refused to show me and misinterpreting my words to paint yourself as a victim. Maybe not the best strategy.
Here's an idea, try recognising that your behaviour here has been far from perfect. It's obviously not only me who noticed this.
Try re-reading your posts and thinking how they might come across to you if our positions were reversed. Try re-reading *my* posts and recognising that I've not directed any personal attacks at you. I made an unfair comment about Fox News, and apologised. This alone is far more grace than you've shown.
I am nice. I'm pretty well known for it. But not to people who aren't nice in return. And especially, as I've said, to people who mischaracterise me. That I won't stand for.