There is a climate of fear generated by politicians and the press, Steve has written about how people think the number of unarmed people being shot by the police is out of proportion with reality. The FBI number of people in a "mass shooting" is far lower that what people are thinking of when they hear the words mass shooting. A few year…
There is a climate of fear generated by politicians and the press, Steve has written about how people think the number of unarmed people being shot by the police is out of proportion with reality. The FBI number of people in a "mass shooting" is far lower that what people are thinking of when they hear the words mass shooting. A few years ago, I looked up mass shootings in Maricopa County where I live. There had been two. A four-person drug deal gone bad and an apparent home invasion.
Arizona is a Constitutional Carry state, you don't even need a permit to carry open or concealed. Open carry in grocery stores is a sight common enough that people don't pay attention to it. Not long ago I saw a mother with a baby in her cart, open carrying a Glock. I do have the state issued permit, Reciprocity in many states, I can carry concealed in places that serve alcohol provided that I don't drink, and I can go into a gun store, buy a gun and a box of bullets and walk out the door with it because it assures that the State and Feds have checked me out already (periodic renewal and new check). I am not the least bit afraid to see someone carrying a gun. Even when you don't see it, they are there. The thing is, people with concealed carry permits, and even NRA members are not the people out committing crimes with guns. Felons, prohibited carriers, have guns and they do.
You mention the NRA. As a boy I took the NRA Safe Hunter Corse sitting in my 8th grade school desk. It was their targets and safety program that we used at my high school Rifle Club and with the Arizona Gun Safety training course I took. The NRA is not what people are thinking of when they think of the political arm of the NRA. It is the NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) which came into existence as a response to gun control advocacy.
Australia and Scottland? I couldn't care less what they do. They are not America. The guns will never all go away here, it is fantasy to think that criminals will give up useful tools. I frequently see news stories about a criminal arrest that included illegal firearm possession. The criminals are not concerned about gun laws.
We have different views partly because we have different situations. I'm not trying to get you to change your views, and you won't change mine. Pretty much all of my friends have at least one gun. None of them have committed a crime with them or had a negligent discharge/tragedy. Most of them are veterans.
A far bigger problem than guns is political partisanship which blinds people both sides of an issue. You named the political right for something I think is more common on the left, but both sides have their radicals don't they. Ignoring ours while pointing at theirs will never solve the problem.
You're right, we will never change each other's minds and I can see how you can't even fathom living in a society where people don't feel the need to be armed to the teeth. Nevertheless, numerous studies have demonstrated time and time again that the proliferation of easily accessible guns results in high gun violence in any country. An FBI report noted that only 3% of armed crimes in progress were stopped by 'good guys with guns'; the vast majority were stopped by *unarmed* men. Most gun deaths aren't mass shootings; they're only a small percentage, even as daily as they are today. Two-thirds of the gun deaths every year are male white suicides. Y'all are your own worst enemy.
I used to live in the small town of Newington CT and IIRC correctly (20+ years go) we had two notable cases of gun violence: A mass shooting at a lottery office (4 dead, including a former mayor) and a Vietnam vet who went nuts and held someone hostage with a gun while in a standoff with police (pretty sure the hostage survived, can't remember if the vet did.)
So, so glad that I live in a sane world where I don't have to deal with armed paranoiacs in the Tim Horton's. I wish you could understand how safe we all feel here in Canada.
Few people "feel the need to be armed to the teeth." I don't own a semi-automatic rifle capable of holding over ten rounds (hoplophobs incorrectly call them assault rifles). As a Marine I never heard my fully automatic M-16 referred to as an assault rifle. Assault was a verb. I not only don't need an AR-15, but I also don't want one.
You use the loaded word "gun deaths." When mayors have guns turned in and send them to a crushed for destruction, I suppose you could call that a gun death, except that gun are not alive in the first place.
Suicides? Surly you don't believe that people who decide to kill themselves wouldn't choose another method. My father checked himself out and he didn't use a gun. I don't understand the mentality of suicide. In my darkest moments I've never considered it.
Stopping crimes in progress is low because most good guy who own guns leave them at home, like me. The number of crimes preempted by people who are armed is another thing.
Most crimes of violence are committed by young men. If you could by magic make all the guns in America vanish, we'd still have violent young men, and be honest with yourself, MOST women, old men, weak and disabled men wouldn't stand a chance against a young able-bodied man in his physical prime. If they come as a group and you are not armed, they can do whatever they want.
In the early years after my return from Vietnam there was a thought about ticking time-bomb deranged Vietnam Veterans. Given the number of us, the number that did something was incredibly small. We weren't automatically inclined to kill people.
While in Vietnam, a group of about six of us, an equal number of black and white, were sitting, shooting the breeze. We all had loaded M-16s. One of the bros kept using the word "Chuck" referring to white people. One of the white ones said, "Listen, if I'm a Chuck, you're a n****r." Moment of silence and then the bro said, "Dig!" and stopped using the word. Nobody died just because we were armed.
America is not other countries. Times are changing, there has been a steady anti-2nd Amendment drone demonizing firearms for much of my life. Political propaganda works, that's why it's done. An increasing, or so it seems from the propaganda, number of people see guns as demonic violent entities. Where that will lead, I cannot say.
You may think me a toxic male gun-nut, I don't know. I can only say that you don't know me based upon one conversation.
Edit addition: Here's a picture from my 1964 high school yearbook. There probably aren't any pictures in the latest high school yearbooks like this one. America is changing.
Apparenly you've gotten a bit triggered (no pun intended, honest) and have exposed a few gaps in your own knowledge (and as a result, I've had to update my own knowledge a bit with a quick Google). Here's a Pew Research article on gun violence and deaths (you know what a gun death is). Pew is considered one of the least biased sources for information according to Media Bias Fact Check.
- In 2017, 60% of gun deaths were suicide (down a bit; but the murders committed by gun may have done that because....
- 75% of all US murders were committed with a gun (they're the easiest way to kill yourself and others!
There are other not-so fun stats but I'll note that I have read up on guns, including a few books over the years (one of them responsibly pro-gun, the other more neutral) and I'll also remind you I haven't called for banning all guns, just idiots with guns. At this point you're beginning to repeat NRA ideology so I'll leave this thing here. The facts are firmly on my side when it comes to the availability of guns and gun violence. Where they are easily accessible, they are directly linked to higher gun violence, and *every* society has angry young men.
It's just some are smart enough to keep them out of the hands of....idiots.
BTW, I realized a few years ago I don't give a damn how many women of any political stripe own guns...clearly, we're not running around killing ourselves or others like strangers or domestic partners the way men clearly do. So when I talk about keeping them out of the hands of 'idiots', yeah, I mean pretty much men. But still...only the idiot men who can't handle the responsibility of gun ownership. You and your buds sound like exceptions. So rock on.
Allowing guns in a tavern is rank insanity. Alcohol lowers inhibitions (that's why people drink that shit) and clouds judgment.
Does anyone really believe that open carry is anything but intimidation? Yeah, polite society ... say something I don't like and it will take me a second to kill you.
When I mentioned firearms where alcohol is served, I was thinking of restaurants, and I did say that it is unlawful to drink while carrying. Bars generally have a no firearms sign. I think that's just fine. Property rights. No weapons signs are a bit problematic in that there are very few things that cannot be used as a weapon although they might not be thought of as weapons until they are used as such. I rarely drink, even at home after I've decided I will have no reason the leave the house and drive so it's not an issue for me.
I'm not a mind reader, I don't know why people choose open carry, unless they live where concealed carry is illegal. As I wrote before, it does not bother me to be around armed people. In many cases it makes them less inclined to violence since the presence of a firearm escalates the situation. Much of my life has been where there were firearms, and also where there was a lot of violence, mostly not involving firearms, so my views may be different from those of people who have lived more privileged lives. I like knowing that I can be armed if I think it prudent, but it is actually quite rare that I do so.
I used to participate in shooting sports. I stopped hunting may years ago when I had cross hairs on a deer and wished my rifle was a camera. I'm not against other people hunting. They fund wildlife management programs. The last time I went to a rifle range I noticed that the percentage of women continues to go up. Smiling faces saying, "this is fun." It's not about need, I don't need my banjo, but I like it. Insert banjo joke here.
You might find this to be of interest, https://communitycrimemap.com/ I live where there is a lot of aggravated assault, open drug use, theft, burglary, etc.
There is a climate of fear generated by politicians and the press, Steve has written about how people think the number of unarmed people being shot by the police is out of proportion with reality. The FBI number of people in a "mass shooting" is far lower that what people are thinking of when they hear the words mass shooting. A few years ago, I looked up mass shootings in Maricopa County where I live. There had been two. A four-person drug deal gone bad and an apparent home invasion.
Arizona is a Constitutional Carry state, you don't even need a permit to carry open or concealed. Open carry in grocery stores is a sight common enough that people don't pay attention to it. Not long ago I saw a mother with a baby in her cart, open carrying a Glock. I do have the state issued permit, Reciprocity in many states, I can carry concealed in places that serve alcohol provided that I don't drink, and I can go into a gun store, buy a gun and a box of bullets and walk out the door with it because it assures that the State and Feds have checked me out already (periodic renewal and new check). I am not the least bit afraid to see someone carrying a gun. Even when you don't see it, they are there. The thing is, people with concealed carry permits, and even NRA members are not the people out committing crimes with guns. Felons, prohibited carriers, have guns and they do.
You mention the NRA. As a boy I took the NRA Safe Hunter Corse sitting in my 8th grade school desk. It was their targets and safety program that we used at my high school Rifle Club and with the Arizona Gun Safety training course I took. The NRA is not what people are thinking of when they think of the political arm of the NRA. It is the NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) which came into existence as a response to gun control advocacy.
Australia and Scottland? I couldn't care less what they do. They are not America. The guns will never all go away here, it is fantasy to think that criminals will give up useful tools. I frequently see news stories about a criminal arrest that included illegal firearm possession. The criminals are not concerned about gun laws.
We have different views partly because we have different situations. I'm not trying to get you to change your views, and you won't change mine. Pretty much all of my friends have at least one gun. None of them have committed a crime with them or had a negligent discharge/tragedy. Most of them are veterans.
A far bigger problem than guns is political partisanship which blinds people both sides of an issue. You named the political right for something I think is more common on the left, but both sides have their radicals don't they. Ignoring ours while pointing at theirs will never solve the problem.
You're right, we will never change each other's minds and I can see how you can't even fathom living in a society where people don't feel the need to be armed to the teeth. Nevertheless, numerous studies have demonstrated time and time again that the proliferation of easily accessible guns results in high gun violence in any country. An FBI report noted that only 3% of armed crimes in progress were stopped by 'good guys with guns'; the vast majority were stopped by *unarmed* men. Most gun deaths aren't mass shootings; they're only a small percentage, even as daily as they are today. Two-thirds of the gun deaths every year are male white suicides. Y'all are your own worst enemy.
I used to live in the small town of Newington CT and IIRC correctly (20+ years go) we had two notable cases of gun violence: A mass shooting at a lottery office (4 dead, including a former mayor) and a Vietnam vet who went nuts and held someone hostage with a gun while in a standoff with police (pretty sure the hostage survived, can't remember if the vet did.)
So, so glad that I live in a sane world where I don't have to deal with armed paranoiacs in the Tim Horton's. I wish you could understand how safe we all feel here in Canada.
Few people "feel the need to be armed to the teeth." I don't own a semi-automatic rifle capable of holding over ten rounds (hoplophobs incorrectly call them assault rifles). As a Marine I never heard my fully automatic M-16 referred to as an assault rifle. Assault was a verb. I not only don't need an AR-15, but I also don't want one.
You use the loaded word "gun deaths." When mayors have guns turned in and send them to a crushed for destruction, I suppose you could call that a gun death, except that gun are not alive in the first place.
Suicides? Surly you don't believe that people who decide to kill themselves wouldn't choose another method. My father checked himself out and he didn't use a gun. I don't understand the mentality of suicide. In my darkest moments I've never considered it.
Stopping crimes in progress is low because most good guy who own guns leave them at home, like me. The number of crimes preempted by people who are armed is another thing.
Most crimes of violence are committed by young men. If you could by magic make all the guns in America vanish, we'd still have violent young men, and be honest with yourself, MOST women, old men, weak and disabled men wouldn't stand a chance against a young able-bodied man in his physical prime. If they come as a group and you are not armed, they can do whatever they want.
In the early years after my return from Vietnam there was a thought about ticking time-bomb deranged Vietnam Veterans. Given the number of us, the number that did something was incredibly small. We weren't automatically inclined to kill people.
While in Vietnam, a group of about six of us, an equal number of black and white, were sitting, shooting the breeze. We all had loaded M-16s. One of the bros kept using the word "Chuck" referring to white people. One of the white ones said, "Listen, if I'm a Chuck, you're a n****r." Moment of silence and then the bro said, "Dig!" and stopped using the word. Nobody died just because we were armed.
America is not other countries. Times are changing, there has been a steady anti-2nd Amendment drone demonizing firearms for much of my life. Political propaganda works, that's why it's done. An increasing, or so it seems from the propaganda, number of people see guns as demonic violent entities. Where that will lead, I cannot say.
You may think me a toxic male gun-nut, I don't know. I can only say that you don't know me based upon one conversation.
Edit addition: Here's a picture from my 1964 high school yearbook. There probably aren't any pictures in the latest high school yearbooks like this one. America is changing.
https://tinyurl.com/mrxkfpc2
Forgot to mention, LOVED the photo! I'm saved that one.
Apparenly you've gotten a bit triggered (no pun intended, honest) and have exposed a few gaps in your own knowledge (and as a result, I've had to update my own knowledge a bit with a quick Google). Here's a Pew Research article on gun violence and deaths (you know what a gun death is). Pew is considered one of the least biased sources for information according to Media Bias Fact Check.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
The highlights:
- In 2017, 60% of gun deaths were suicide (down a bit; but the murders committed by gun may have done that because....
- 75% of all US murders were committed with a gun (they're the easiest way to kill yourself and others!
There are other not-so fun stats but I'll note that I have read up on guns, including a few books over the years (one of them responsibly pro-gun, the other more neutral) and I'll also remind you I haven't called for banning all guns, just idiots with guns. At this point you're beginning to repeat NRA ideology so I'll leave this thing here. The facts are firmly on my side when it comes to the availability of guns and gun violence. Where they are easily accessible, they are directly linked to higher gun violence, and *every* society has angry young men.
It's just some are smart enough to keep them out of the hands of....idiots.
BTW, I realized a few years ago I don't give a damn how many women of any political stripe own guns...clearly, we're not running around killing ourselves or others like strangers or domestic partners the way men clearly do. So when I talk about keeping them out of the hands of 'idiots', yeah, I mean pretty much men. But still...only the idiot men who can't handle the responsibility of gun ownership. You and your buds sound like exceptions. So rock on.
Allowing guns in a tavern is rank insanity. Alcohol lowers inhibitions (that's why people drink that shit) and clouds judgment.
Does anyone really believe that open carry is anything but intimidation? Yeah, polite society ... say something I don't like and it will take me a second to kill you.
When I mentioned firearms where alcohol is served, I was thinking of restaurants, and I did say that it is unlawful to drink while carrying. Bars generally have a no firearms sign. I think that's just fine. Property rights. No weapons signs are a bit problematic in that there are very few things that cannot be used as a weapon although they might not be thought of as weapons until they are used as such. I rarely drink, even at home after I've decided I will have no reason the leave the house and drive so it's not an issue for me.
I'm not a mind reader, I don't know why people choose open carry, unless they live where concealed carry is illegal. As I wrote before, it does not bother me to be around armed people. In many cases it makes them less inclined to violence since the presence of a firearm escalates the situation. Much of my life has been where there were firearms, and also where there was a lot of violence, mostly not involving firearms, so my views may be different from those of people who have lived more privileged lives. I like knowing that I can be armed if I think it prudent, but it is actually quite rare that I do so.
I used to participate in shooting sports. I stopped hunting may years ago when I had cross hairs on a deer and wished my rifle was a camera. I'm not against other people hunting. They fund wildlife management programs. The last time I went to a rifle range I noticed that the percentage of women continues to go up. Smiling faces saying, "this is fun." It's not about need, I don't need my banjo, but I like it. Insert banjo joke here.
You might find this to be of interest, https://communitycrimemap.com/ I live where there is a lot of aggravated assault, open drug use, theft, burglary, etc.