I'm not advocate of political correctness but "oriental" has been deprecated more than for any other reason because it sounds like "ornamental." Yer me pal and I'm not trying to shape your speech but yours is the first use of this word for Asians I've encountered in a quarter century (I'm not clear why we call them "Asians" even when th…
I'm not advocate of political correctness but "oriental" has been deprecated more than for any other reason because it sounds like "ornamental." Yer me pal and I'm not trying to shape your speech but yours is the first use of this word for Asians I've encountered in a quarter century (I'm not clear why we call them "Asians" even when their ancestors came to the USA in the 1840s to build railroads ... nine generations later they still speak Toisan at home).
I had forgotten the extent to which Gould's book is a rebuttal to Murray's. I read it a long time ago. Patience. It gets better. Gould was brilliant, pity he isn't still with us, he died at 61 looking quite elderly.
In the USA we went to visit some friends of my partner. Saturday night and the kids, grade and middle school, are all at the dining room table studying. Not at the mall, not on the computer. And not being forced. Here in Vietnam high school ("secondary" here) goes through integral calculus. But a lot of them leave early to work for their families or start drinking beer.
Ralphie May, may he rest in peace, was able to use humor like is no longer acceptable to go to the heart of the matter. Not PC, but his routine fits right here.
I just saw this in a Medium comment: "𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘐 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘉𝘠 𝘍𝘈𝘙 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘴𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘕𝘰𝘯-𝘐𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘈𝘴𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘸𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯 (𝘊𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘦, 𝘑𝘢𝘱𝘢𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘦, 𝘝𝘪𝘦𝘵𝘯𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘴𝘦, 𝘦𝘵𝘤). 𝘞𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘰𝘳 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘏𝘪𝘴𝘱𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘤 𝘸𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘪𝘴 𝘢 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘳𝘥."
The "𝗡𝗼𝗻-𝗜𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗮𝗻 𝗔𝘀𝗶𝗮𝗻" jumped out at me. That's what my wife is thinking of when she says "oriental", and I suspect that it is what most people are thinking of when they think of Asians, including me. I retired from a corporation that was big on globalization. Factory to Malasia, software to India, joint venture with China. I worked with many people from India and early in the globalization I was a mentor. I never thought of them as Asians and never have heard anyone refer to the Indians as Asians. Cultural quirks can be meaningful but if you are a non-immigrant, you are more vanilla American than an ethnicity.
The reason the whole thing jumped out at me is birds of a feather often flock together and many/most of my friends match the quoted statement. Black men with white women and white men with non-Indian Asian women. I've never seen fit to discuss it with any of them since it had nothing to do with my choice. It was her, not where I found her. I assume the same for my friends.
I actually changed Asian to oriental as I wrote that, with purpose. My wife uses that word. When she first heard DWO (Driving While Oriental) she laughed as hard as she did the day that she discovered The Three Stooges slapstick comedy. I think it is her way of differentiating the round hair follicled, high cheek boned, epicanthic fold eyes subset of the Asian grouping (appearance) from those who don't have that look. When she first came to America, she looked for people who looked like her. They didn't have to be Thai or dark in what she called the land of the blue eyed blond, it was all in a specific set of observable features. I think it is also a distinction in the minds of many Americans when they think of "Asians" which is the word I normally use. "Oriental" served my purpose in that it led to this thought.
As a side note, my daughters, born in the USA, heard lots of "Where are you from?" coming up. Asians have been in America for a long time but are probably subjected to an attitude of foreignness to a greater extent than any other ethnic tribe.
We have friends (Vietnamese) who have 3rd generation in America children who speak English with a hint of a Vietnamese accent because they seem more resistant to giving up the mother tongue that other immigrant groups. My wife chatters away on the phone in Thai with her Thai friends daily. They all can speak English.
When we adopted my wife's niece after her mother (wife's half-sister) was brutally beaten to death in a drunken brawl we brought her to America at the age of 10 with no English. I gave her an ABC Elmo doll to play with on the plane since they don't share our alphabet. She got together with neighborhood friends who "looked like her" (Filipina and Chinese) to study after she reached functional communication level English. And yes, people in countries ranked as lower IQ have plenty of smart high achievers. Another reason to dampen ideas of race-based intelligence.
I'm not advocate of political correctness but "oriental" has been deprecated more than for any other reason because it sounds like "ornamental." Yer me pal and I'm not trying to shape your speech but yours is the first use of this word for Asians I've encountered in a quarter century (I'm not clear why we call them "Asians" even when their ancestors came to the USA in the 1840s to build railroads ... nine generations later they still speak Toisan at home).
I had forgotten the extent to which Gould's book is a rebuttal to Murray's. I read it a long time ago. Patience. It gets better. Gould was brilliant, pity he isn't still with us, he died at 61 looking quite elderly.
In the USA we went to visit some friends of my partner. Saturday night and the kids, grade and middle school, are all at the dining room table studying. Not at the mall, not on the computer. And not being forced. Here in Vietnam high school ("secondary" here) goes through integral calculus. But a lot of them leave early to work for their families or start drinking beer.
Ralphie May, may he rest in peace, was able to use humor like is no longer acceptable to go to the heart of the matter. Not PC, but his routine fits right here.
https://fb.watch/eXXEqv2mCl/
I just saw this in a Medium comment: "𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘐 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘉𝘠 𝘍𝘈𝘙 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘴𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘕𝘰𝘯-𝘐𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘈𝘴𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘸𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯 (𝘊𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘦, 𝘑𝘢𝘱𝘢𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘦, 𝘝𝘪𝘦𝘵𝘯𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘴𝘦, 𝘦𝘵𝘤). 𝘞𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘰𝘳 𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘏𝘪𝘴𝘱𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘤 𝘸𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘪𝘴 𝘢 𝘥𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘳𝘥."
The "𝗡𝗼𝗻-𝗜𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗮𝗻 𝗔𝘀𝗶𝗮𝗻" jumped out at me. That's what my wife is thinking of when she says "oriental", and I suspect that it is what most people are thinking of when they think of Asians, including me. I retired from a corporation that was big on globalization. Factory to Malasia, software to India, joint venture with China. I worked with many people from India and early in the globalization I was a mentor. I never thought of them as Asians and never have heard anyone refer to the Indians as Asians. Cultural quirks can be meaningful but if you are a non-immigrant, you are more vanilla American than an ethnicity.
The reason the whole thing jumped out at me is birds of a feather often flock together and many/most of my friends match the quoted statement. Black men with white women and white men with non-Indian Asian women. I've never seen fit to discuss it with any of them since it had nothing to do with my choice. It was her, not where I found her. I assume the same for my friends.
Indians are ususally distinguished as “south Asians.” I’ve found working with them to often be a real challenge.
I actually changed Asian to oriental as I wrote that, with purpose. My wife uses that word. When she first heard DWO (Driving While Oriental) she laughed as hard as she did the day that she discovered The Three Stooges slapstick comedy. I think it is her way of differentiating the round hair follicled, high cheek boned, epicanthic fold eyes subset of the Asian grouping (appearance) from those who don't have that look. When she first came to America, she looked for people who looked like her. They didn't have to be Thai or dark in what she called the land of the blue eyed blond, it was all in a specific set of observable features. I think it is also a distinction in the minds of many Americans when they think of "Asians" which is the word I normally use. "Oriental" served my purpose in that it led to this thought.
As a side note, my daughters, born in the USA, heard lots of "Where are you from?" coming up. Asians have been in America for a long time but are probably subjected to an attitude of foreignness to a greater extent than any other ethnic tribe.
We have friends (Vietnamese) who have 3rd generation in America children who speak English with a hint of a Vietnamese accent because they seem more resistant to giving up the mother tongue that other immigrant groups. My wife chatters away on the phone in Thai with her Thai friends daily. They all can speak English.
When we adopted my wife's niece after her mother (wife's half-sister) was brutally beaten to death in a drunken brawl we brought her to America at the age of 10 with no English. I gave her an ABC Elmo doll to play with on the plane since they don't share our alphabet. She got together with neighborhood friends who "looked like her" (Filipina and Chinese) to study after she reached functional communication level English. And yes, people in countries ranked as lower IQ have plenty of smart high achievers. Another reason to dampen ideas of race-based intelligence.