I couldn’t make it through their arguments. It’s clear Alex is genuine in their belief but also clear that they just don’t understand my experience as a woman. It’s easy to argue in theory that gender is a social construct when we are talking about which clothes to wear or which pronouns to use. But when we’re talking about my history as…
I couldn’t make it through their arguments. It’s clear Alex is genuine in their belief but also clear that they just don’t understand my experience as a woman. It’s easy to argue in theory that gender is a social construct when we are talking about which clothes to wear or which pronouns to use. But when we’re talking about my history as a woman, or my mother’s or grandmother’s, it’s another story.
That I started to bleed at 13 is not an experience I share with trans women. Or that I am physically smaller and more vulnerable.
Even socialization can’t be ignored—for example that I was raised to present myself more softly, and the problems that creates when I want to be heard at work, or that my grandmother was denied the opportunity to go to college by her parents because her older brother chose not to.
I believe in accepting and respecting identity. But that shouldn’t require me to pretend I don’t notice difference. As we do with everyone, we can notice the ways in which we are similar and the ways in which we are different. And we should be open to surprises around that. But we don’t need to participate in this kind of self-erasure just to help someone else feel better. How it makes me feel matters too.
“It’s clear Alex is genuine in their belief but also clear that they just don’t understand my experience as a woman.”
It’s surreal how consistently this group of people, who claim to be women no less, demonstrate that they haven’t given even a second’s thought to the lives and experiences of women. It really is all flowery dresses and “girl-talk” in their minds.
And yes, I couldn’t agree more. What I’m constantly amazed by are the people who are overflowing with empathy for the needs of trans people and completely indifferent or even hostile to the needs of women. The feelings of women matter too. Especially as there are at least 100 times more women than trans women.
Exactly! "Inclusion" means acknowledgement of differences. Otherwise there would be no need to "include" somebody who already belongs to the group. But what most TRA push for is, in fact, not merely inclusion, as erasure of the host group. They want us to pretend there is absolutely no difference between women and transwomen (I hate this word, it is already hijacking womanhood - imagine if white people started calling themselves "transblack"), and that everything that's ours is theirs too. It is not only unrealistic, but also very dangerous (as Steve's examples demonstrate).
Yes. It also just feels problematic for acceptance to lie on a foundation of pretending.
And it’s not just trans activists. I feel like progressives are frequently asking us to pretend lately. It’s not a sustainable path to the progress we seek.
Hmm. It might surprise you to know that I don't hate Trump. I think he is a symptom of a much larger problem that no one on the left is willing to talk about - the complete abandonment of the little guy in national politics. I don't think the people who support him are pretending. I think they simply prioritized a guy who appears to speak their language over someone who openly scorned them (deplorables? Really? what a way to talk about the citizens of a country you wish to govern.)
When the elites get it through their head that the little guy will fight them, even if it means voting for someone like Trump, then maybe they will pay attention. I see very little evidence of any kind of elite epiphany happening. If anything, they are doubling down on their snobbery and self-righteousness. They are so convinced that their shit doesn't stink that they are digging their own graves. I want the Dems to lose and to lose hard in November.
The only way in which Trump "speaks the language" of the little guy is that he has the vocabulary of a fourth grade dropout. His contempt for working people is boundless. And unhidden.
Your post is an unfiltered recitation of right wing tropes and I will not be reading you anymore.
I said "appears to speak", but your amygdala was in gear before you even finished reading my post. I don't bow to purity tests, my friend. Ignore away...
It's no skin off my nose if they lose, I don't live there anymore either. But I'd rather not see my mother country destroy themselves. I hear what you're saying about Trump's 'deplorables', but it's not like he's doing anything to help them, either. The Republicans have been destroying their way of life for forty years and they bend over and say, like Oliver Twist, "Please, sir, may I have some moah?" I feel the same way about Trump's long-suffering deplorables like I do the 53% of American women who voted for Trump: You voted for it, bitches! Now STFU and enjoy your disappearing safety net. And keep your legs closed until menopause.
"As we do with everyone, we can notice the ways in which we are similar and the ways in which we are different. And we should be open to surprises around that."
As well as the particulars:
"But we don’t need to participate in this kind of self-erasure just to help someone else feel better. How it makes me feel matters too."
This is very contrary the commonly-held view the "my feelings matter, but yours don't." TYTY.
"But we don’t need to participate in this kind of self-erasure just to help someone else feel better. How it makes me feel matters too."
Case in point. The same people who demand that I refer to a single person as "they" refuse to stop referring to gay people as "queer." I tell them that I find this extremely offensive and they retort that I suffer from "internalized homophobia." And go on using "queer."
I couldn’t make it through their arguments. It’s clear Alex is genuine in their belief but also clear that they just don’t understand my experience as a woman. It’s easy to argue in theory that gender is a social construct when we are talking about which clothes to wear or which pronouns to use. But when we’re talking about my history as a woman, or my mother’s or grandmother’s, it’s another story.
That I started to bleed at 13 is not an experience I share with trans women. Or that I am physically smaller and more vulnerable.
Even socialization can’t be ignored—for example that I was raised to present myself more softly, and the problems that creates when I want to be heard at work, or that my grandmother was denied the opportunity to go to college by her parents because her older brother chose not to.
I believe in accepting and respecting identity. But that shouldn’t require me to pretend I don’t notice difference. As we do with everyone, we can notice the ways in which we are similar and the ways in which we are different. And we should be open to surprises around that. But we don’t need to participate in this kind of self-erasure just to help someone else feel better. How it makes me feel matters too.
“It’s clear Alex is genuine in their belief but also clear that they just don’t understand my experience as a woman.”
It’s surreal how consistently this group of people, who claim to be women no less, demonstrate that they haven’t given even a second’s thought to the lives and experiences of women. It really is all flowery dresses and “girl-talk” in their minds.
And yes, I couldn’t agree more. What I’m constantly amazed by are the people who are overflowing with empathy for the needs of trans people and completely indifferent or even hostile to the needs of women. The feelings of women matter too. Especially as there are at least 100 times more women than trans women.
Exactly! "Inclusion" means acknowledgement of differences. Otherwise there would be no need to "include" somebody who already belongs to the group. But what most TRA push for is, in fact, not merely inclusion, as erasure of the host group. They want us to pretend there is absolutely no difference between women and transwomen (I hate this word, it is already hijacking womanhood - imagine if white people started calling themselves "transblack"), and that everything that's ours is theirs too. It is not only unrealistic, but also very dangerous (as Steve's examples demonstrate).
Yes. It also just feels problematic for acceptance to lie on a foundation of pretending.
And it’s not just trans activists. I feel like progressives are frequently asking us to pretend lately. It’s not a sustainable path to the progress we seek.
Pretending. What a powerful way to encapsulate the dynamic. And that's why I hate it. I hate pretending. Thanks for the insight.
Rather an awful lot like other side has to pretend an awful lot about an awful leader they support.
Hmm. It might surprise you to know that I don't hate Trump. I think he is a symptom of a much larger problem that no one on the left is willing to talk about - the complete abandonment of the little guy in national politics. I don't think the people who support him are pretending. I think they simply prioritized a guy who appears to speak their language over someone who openly scorned them (deplorables? Really? what a way to talk about the citizens of a country you wish to govern.)
When the elites get it through their head that the little guy will fight them, even if it means voting for someone like Trump, then maybe they will pay attention. I see very little evidence of any kind of elite epiphany happening. If anything, they are doubling down on their snobbery and self-righteousness. They are so convinced that their shit doesn't stink that they are digging their own graves. I want the Dems to lose and to lose hard in November.
The only way in which Trump "speaks the language" of the little guy is that he has the vocabulary of a fourth grade dropout. His contempt for working people is boundless. And unhidden.
Your post is an unfiltered recitation of right wing tropes and I will not be reading you anymore.
I said "appears to speak", but your amygdala was in gear before you even finished reading my post. I don't bow to purity tests, my friend. Ignore away...
It's no skin off my nose if they lose, I don't live there anymore either. But I'd rather not see my mother country destroy themselves. I hear what you're saying about Trump's 'deplorables', but it's not like he's doing anything to help them, either. The Republicans have been destroying their way of life for forty years and they bend over and say, like Oliver Twist, "Please, sir, may I have some moah?" I feel the same way about Trump's long-suffering deplorables like I do the 53% of American women who voted for Trump: You voted for it, bitches! Now STFU and enjoy your disappearing safety net. And keep your legs closed until menopause.
Thank You. I agree with You and Wen Jin. Classic:
"As we do with everyone, we can notice the ways in which we are similar and the ways in which we are different. And we should be open to surprises around that."
As well as the particulars:
"But we don’t need to participate in this kind of self-erasure just to help someone else feel better. How it makes me feel matters too."
This is very contrary the commonly-held view the "my feelings matter, but yours don't." TYTY.
"But we don’t need to participate in this kind of self-erasure just to help someone else feel better. How it makes me feel matters too."
Case in point. The same people who demand that I refer to a single person as "they" refuse to stop referring to gay people as "queer." I tell them that I find this extremely offensive and they retort that I suffer from "internalized homophobia." And go on using "queer."
Figures, doesn't it.