"The premise is simply that the Jews should just shut up, lie down and die."
Okay, please, PLEASE help me understand what information you've absorbed that leads you to believe this. Do you really think everybody arguing for an end to the killing in Gaza is advocating the slaughter of millions of Jews? Especially people who are basing thei…
"The premise is simply that the Jews should just shut up, lie down and die."
Okay, please, PLEASE help me understand what information you've absorbed that leads you to believe this. Do you really think everybody arguing for an end to the killing in Gaza is advocating the slaughter of millions of Jews? Especially people who are basing their argument entirely on their opposition to the killing of thousands of Palestinians? Is it not far more likely that you are labouring under some misapprehension somewhere?
Anyway, again, I'd sincerely love to know what logic is leading to the conclusion that the premise of the argument to stop killing Palestinian civilians is that the Jews should "shut up, lie down, and die."
“Simply, reality says that Hamas has that immmutable goal of a properly described genocide”
Let’s say this is true, that the only thing that could satisfy Hamas is the total extinction of the Jewish people. How does killing Palestinians help keep Jews safe?
Are you suggesting that Israel should kill every single Palestinian man to ensure that none of Hamas remains? Are you signing off on that? How about the boys? Kill them too, just in case they grow up to hate the people who killed their fathers and brothers? Seems reasonable.
But then, what about the women? What if they have male children who grow up to hate the people who didn’t even spare Palestinian children? Better kill them too, eh? And the girls of course, just in case they have children when they’re old enough.
But any Palestinian women who are beyond their child-bearing years are fine, right? So it’s not as if you’re advocating wiping out the Palestinians entirely! I’m sure that Israel will be in no danger from others in the region if they do this!
Just one thought though.
What if Israel just attempts following international law. What if they stop killing innocent people, demand whatever security/disarmament measures they need, and stop stealing Palestinian land? What if they finally stop preventing the establishment of the Palestinian state? What if they give the Palestinians a chance to be free and build a life for themselves? Isn’t it worth attempting this before committing the genocide you’re advocating for?
"À simple approach. What would you do if your neighbor burrowed under your house and he and all his family Said they would accept no outcome otherr than the annihalation of you, your wife and children? Answers on a postcard please."
YES! I love empathy approaches like this. I won't jump straight to whataboutism, I'll answer your question first.
If I had this neighbour, I would want him gone. Anybody would. I understand why many Israelis feel this way. The thing is, I would also ask myself what I had done that made him hate me so much.
And if the answer was that I had stolen his home and driven him from it, if I had spent decades killing his family and continued even up till the present day, I would recognise that his hatred was very largely my fault. And I would hope that at some point along the 76 years I'd been doing this to him for, I would have chosen to stop and make a sincere attempt at peace (no, before you say it, Israel has absolutely never done this).
But here's the whataboutism I foreshadowed. And I'd like you to also answer before any whataboutism of your own.
What would you do, if a group of foreigners came from overseas, declared half your home their territory now, and forced you and your family out of your home at gunpoint, killing and raping any who remained for too long? What would you do if, over the next 76 years years, they slowly but surely stole more and more of your home, occasionally "mowing the lawn" by which they meant killing you and your family?
As for the solution, as I mention in the article (I desperately wish people would actually READ my articles), there's been a solution on the table since 1988. It has near universal international support, hundreds of countries in support, including Palestine, and all it requires of Israel is that they follow the international laws that they've spent decades violating: stay within your borders, stop occupying foreign territory, address the people who you forced from their homes, either by letting them return, or compensating them for their losses.
This solution has been voted on in the UN dozens of times, always with overwhelming international support, almost always with Israel and the US being the only major countries in opposition. In the last vote in 2022 153 countries voted in favour, 10 abstained, and only 9 voted against.
There is a solution. It's a good one. Israel doesn't want it because they want to continue stealing the land.
So you expect subtlety and nuance from people who are being murdered to steal their land. If they want to see Israelis, excuse me, "Jews," die, it can only be out if irrational bigotry.
Hear, hear! The Jews and the rest of the world really should synthesise the Holocaust in a less partisan way. There are always two equivalent sides to every story, right?
Or, ooor, are there times when one side is clearly the side most guilty of wrongdoing and when it would be ridiculous to ignore or minimise that?
"The premise is simply that the Jews should just shut up, lie down and die."
Okay, please, PLEASE help me understand what information you've absorbed that leads you to believe this. Do you really think everybody arguing for an end to the killing in Gaza is advocating the slaughter of millions of Jews? Especially people who are basing their argument entirely on their opposition to the killing of thousands of Palestinians? Is it not far more likely that you are labouring under some misapprehension somewhere?
Anyway, again, I'd sincerely love to know what logic is leading to the conclusion that the premise of the argument to stop killing Palestinian civilians is that the Jews should "shut up, lie down, and die."
“Simply, reality says that Hamas has that immmutable goal of a properly described genocide”
Let’s say this is true, that the only thing that could satisfy Hamas is the total extinction of the Jewish people. How does killing Palestinians help keep Jews safe?
Are you suggesting that Israel should kill every single Palestinian man to ensure that none of Hamas remains? Are you signing off on that? How about the boys? Kill them too, just in case they grow up to hate the people who killed their fathers and brothers? Seems reasonable.
But then, what about the women? What if they have male children who grow up to hate the people who didn’t even spare Palestinian children? Better kill them too, eh? And the girls of course, just in case they have children when they’re old enough.
But any Palestinian women who are beyond their child-bearing years are fine, right? So it’s not as if you’re advocating wiping out the Palestinians entirely! I’m sure that Israel will be in no danger from others in the region if they do this!
Just one thought though.
What if Israel just attempts following international law. What if they stop killing innocent people, demand whatever security/disarmament measures they need, and stop stealing Palestinian land? What if they finally stop preventing the establishment of the Palestinian state? What if they give the Palestinians a chance to be free and build a life for themselves? Isn’t it worth attempting this before committing the genocide you’re advocating for?
"À simple approach. What would you do if your neighbor burrowed under your house and he and all his family Said they would accept no outcome otherr than the annihalation of you, your wife and children? Answers on a postcard please."
YES! I love empathy approaches like this. I won't jump straight to whataboutism, I'll answer your question first.
If I had this neighbour, I would want him gone. Anybody would. I understand why many Israelis feel this way. The thing is, I would also ask myself what I had done that made him hate me so much.
And if the answer was that I had stolen his home and driven him from it, if I had spent decades killing his family and continued even up till the present day, I would recognise that his hatred was very largely my fault. And I would hope that at some point along the 76 years I'd been doing this to him for, I would have chosen to stop and make a sincere attempt at peace (no, before you say it, Israel has absolutely never done this).
But here's the whataboutism I foreshadowed. And I'd like you to also answer before any whataboutism of your own.
What would you do, if a group of foreigners came from overseas, declared half your home their territory now, and forced you and your family out of your home at gunpoint, killing and raping any who remained for too long? What would you do if, over the next 76 years years, they slowly but surely stole more and more of your home, occasionally "mowing the lawn" by which they meant killing you and your family?
As for the solution, as I mention in the article (I desperately wish people would actually READ my articles), there's been a solution on the table since 1988. It has near universal international support, hundreds of countries in support, including Palestine, and all it requires of Israel is that they follow the international laws that they've spent decades violating: stay within your borders, stop occupying foreign territory, address the people who you forced from their homes, either by letting them return, or compensating them for their losses.
This solution has been voted on in the UN dozens of times, always with overwhelming international support, almost always with Israel and the US being the only major countries in opposition. In the last vote in 2022 153 countries voted in favour, 10 abstained, and only 9 voted against.
There is a solution. It's a good one. Israel doesn't want it because they want to continue stealing the land.
So you expect subtlety and nuance from people who are being murdered to steal their land. If they want to see Israelis, excuse me, "Jews," die, it can only be out if irrational bigotry.
They should just bury their children and shut up.
You're a really charming guy.
Hear, hear! The Jews and the rest of the world really should synthesise the Holocaust in a less partisan way. There are always two equivalent sides to every story, right?
Or, ooor, are there times when one side is clearly the side most guilty of wrongdoing and when it would be ridiculous to ignore or minimise that?