A person can simultaneously hold two opposing views of something without cognitive dissonance, and that's a good thing because the opposing sides will usually contain some truth. I sometimes express a thought (opinion) that I have an opposing thought about without expressing it too. I ramble too much already without adding all that.
A person can simultaneously hold two opposing views of something without cognitive dissonance, and that's a good thing because the opposing sides will usually contain some truth. I sometimes express a thought (opinion) that I have an opposing thought about without expressing it too. I ramble too much already without adding all that.
We all have our own lived experience and it's true that some won't be able to understand your views because their world is and has been a different one. When someone tells me about their lived experience, I try to use that to help understand their views. That doesn't necessarily cause me to agree with them, but it helps me to not demonize them. I'm known to tell my stories in hopes that it will have that affect upon others. It doesn't always work. Life as it is.
Diverting a bit, the accusation of "phobic" often is misplaced. I used the word "hoplophobia" in a conversation here on The Commentary. My apologies, I shouldn't have. We all have opinions, and they aren't necessarily fear based, but they could be. I can't read minds.
The economist and political commentator, Walter Williams, once said, "When I was looking for a Mrs. Williams, white women need not apply." A black man who had a preference for a black woman for a life partner. I don't see it as racist or phobic to express the fact that he had a race-based preference just because I didn't/don't.
Social activities are a different thing from dating, a thing that can lead to sexual activities. I have no problem with social engagement with trans people or flaming gay people, but if I was single and dating, I wouldn't choose to date either. Two people enjoying an activity together isn't a date by default. The friend zone. Does that make me transphobic? I don't think so.
I've been told to stay in my lane, along with some defamation which was more objectionable. As Steve says, it is worthwhile to listen to others, they might have something to say that could even change your mind if you are seeking truth, rather than just "winning" a debate. Ignoring something worthwhile because you don't like it isn't winning.
"A black man who had a preference for a black woman for a life partner. I don't see it as racist or phobic to express the fact that he had a race-based preference just because I didn't/don't."
Hmm, interesting. I definitely see this as racist. Just as I would if a white person said it about black women. This isn't about preferences to me, I'm not saying it's racist to have a preference for certain body types of features or even skin tones. But to completely write off an entire group of millions of people, within which there's enormous variation in appearance, is more than just preference to my mind.
I have my sexual preferences when it comes to body type and complexion, but there are extraordinarily attractive women of all colours and shapes. And, of course, there's an awful lot more to a potential wife than how they look.
"I have my sexual preferences when it comes to body type and complexion, but there are extraordinarily attractive women of all colours and shapes. And, of course, there's an awful lot more to a potential wife than how they look."
I obviously agree since I married a woman of different race and culture. I have more friends, not just acquaintances, who are married outside their race than same race. Birds of a feather flock together. Interestingly, white men with Asian wives and black men with white wives. Was race a factor in their choices? I don't know.
I don't condemn the man. He didn't state his reasons. The thing with race bias is that it can motivate bad things directed at others or can be denying yourself possibilities, which he did. He is also older than me. He died at the age of 84 in 2020. When I got married in 1970, interracial marriage was not common like it is today, and we did encounter racist attitudes and actions. For him, it may have still been illegal in many states when he married. It was 1967 when the Supreme Court ruled against laws against interracial marriage. Today, few bat an eye about it, but it hasn't always been that way in my lifetime, and certainly not in his.
In about 1980, in Georgia, we were to go out as a double with a couple who were black people. At the last minute, he couldn't go so we went as a threesome. A nightclub that had two bands that night, one white and one black. When the white band played its last set, all the white people left, except me. I didn't really notice until I was on the dance floor with Suzie and realized that I was a white man dancing with a black woman in a club with no other white people. It was fine, but it wouldn't have been fine if the races were all reversed. The bad old days. Yes, in those day I was called a "N" lover by some racist white people, but I didn't share the same risk for violence (mostly) as a black man.
In the end, I must agree with you that his attitude seemed racist, but thinking of the times, and the big picture, I give him a pass.
"In the end, I must agree with you that his attitude seemed racist, but thinking of the times, and the big picture, I give him a pass."
Oh yeah, absolutely. I think one of the biggest problems with discourse today is that people refuse to acknowledge that standards change and that something that was broadly acceptable even 10 years ago is considered offensive today.
I still think what he said was racist, but as you say, in the context of the time he said it, racist attitudes were far less surprising or unusual.
A person can simultaneously hold two opposing views of something without cognitive dissonance, and that's a good thing because the opposing sides will usually contain some truth. I sometimes express a thought (opinion) that I have an opposing thought about without expressing it too. I ramble too much already without adding all that.
We all have our own lived experience and it's true that some won't be able to understand your views because their world is and has been a different one. When someone tells me about their lived experience, I try to use that to help understand their views. That doesn't necessarily cause me to agree with them, but it helps me to not demonize them. I'm known to tell my stories in hopes that it will have that affect upon others. It doesn't always work. Life as it is.
Diverting a bit, the accusation of "phobic" often is misplaced. I used the word "hoplophobia" in a conversation here on The Commentary. My apologies, I shouldn't have. We all have opinions, and they aren't necessarily fear based, but they could be. I can't read minds.
The economist and political commentator, Walter Williams, once said, "When I was looking for a Mrs. Williams, white women need not apply." A black man who had a preference for a black woman for a life partner. I don't see it as racist or phobic to express the fact that he had a race-based preference just because I didn't/don't.
Social activities are a different thing from dating, a thing that can lead to sexual activities. I have no problem with social engagement with trans people or flaming gay people, but if I was single and dating, I wouldn't choose to date either. Two people enjoying an activity together isn't a date by default. The friend zone. Does that make me transphobic? I don't think so.
I've been told to stay in my lane, along with some defamation which was more objectionable. As Steve says, it is worthwhile to listen to others, they might have something to say that could even change your mind if you are seeking truth, rather than just "winning" a debate. Ignoring something worthwhile because you don't like it isn't winning.
"A black man who had a preference for a black woman for a life partner. I don't see it as racist or phobic to express the fact that he had a race-based preference just because I didn't/don't."
Hmm, interesting. I definitely see this as racist. Just as I would if a white person said it about black women. This isn't about preferences to me, I'm not saying it's racist to have a preference for certain body types of features or even skin tones. But to completely write off an entire group of millions of people, within which there's enormous variation in appearance, is more than just preference to my mind.
I have my sexual preferences when it comes to body type and complexion, but there are extraordinarily attractive women of all colours and shapes. And, of course, there's an awful lot more to a potential wife than how they look.
"I have my sexual preferences when it comes to body type and complexion, but there are extraordinarily attractive women of all colours and shapes. And, of course, there's an awful lot more to a potential wife than how they look."
I obviously agree since I married a woman of different race and culture. I have more friends, not just acquaintances, who are married outside their race than same race. Birds of a feather flock together. Interestingly, white men with Asian wives and black men with white wives. Was race a factor in their choices? I don't know.
I don't condemn the man. He didn't state his reasons. The thing with race bias is that it can motivate bad things directed at others or can be denying yourself possibilities, which he did. He is also older than me. He died at the age of 84 in 2020. When I got married in 1970, interracial marriage was not common like it is today, and we did encounter racist attitudes and actions. For him, it may have still been illegal in many states when he married. It was 1967 when the Supreme Court ruled against laws against interracial marriage. Today, few bat an eye about it, but it hasn't always been that way in my lifetime, and certainly not in his.
In about 1980, in Georgia, we were to go out as a double with a couple who were black people. At the last minute, he couldn't go so we went as a threesome. A nightclub that had two bands that night, one white and one black. When the white band played its last set, all the white people left, except me. I didn't really notice until I was on the dance floor with Suzie and realized that I was a white man dancing with a black woman in a club with no other white people. It was fine, but it wouldn't have been fine if the races were all reversed. The bad old days. Yes, in those day I was called a "N" lover by some racist white people, but I didn't share the same risk for violence (mostly) as a black man.
In the end, I must agree with you that his attitude seemed racist, but thinking of the times, and the big picture, I give him a pass.
"In the end, I must agree with you that his attitude seemed racist, but thinking of the times, and the big picture, I give him a pass."
Oh yeah, absolutely. I think one of the biggest problems with discourse today is that people refuse to acknowledge that standards change and that something that was broadly acceptable even 10 years ago is considered offensive today.
I still think what he said was racist, but as you say, in the context of the time he said it, racist attitudes were far less surprising or unusual.