Last week, after a particularly long and frustrating conversation, a reader asked me how I decide who to engage with. At what point do I decide that a conversation is a waste of time and move on? And the simple answer is, I try not to look at conversations as a waste of time. If I manage to change somebody’s thinking, even a little bit (or if they manage to change mine), I consider that conversation a success. So I’ll usually persevere until it becomes obvious that neither is going to happen.
Good job of turning it around including admitting that you didn't handle the debate as well as you might.
So hey, didn't know you were a flaming conservative, Steve :) So am I to hear some tell it...one Mediumite even called me a Handmaid. LOL.
I understood exactly what you meant when I first read the line about how black racism writing needs to emphasize nothing but suffering. When you sarcastically refer to the people who write Four Words You Should Never Say To A Black Person I know who you're talking about...several whos :) It's the chronic perma-victim mentality, and as you don't live life perpetually under attack by the Klan, I don't live my life being raped all day long by The Patriarchy, so I feel your frustration.
It was interesting to see how the argument started off hot but then slowly cooled down over the course of several exchanges. You're a better one than I...but I get what you're saying about the need to engage with people if you can, or for as long as you can, to try and end the divisiveness. I have a nurse friend here in Toronto who told our weekly Virtual Cocktail Hour a few weeks ago that she doesn't argue with people. When they say weird or offensive things, she asks, "Really? Why do you feel this way? Why do you think this person said blah?" She tries to understand why they said or reacted the way they did to something rather than saying, "You vile deplorable!"
BTW I'm no longer on Medium...I got suspended last week for....well, I still don't know exactly what as they haven't told me. But I haven't begged for my account back yet and they never answered my initial query. If I had to put money on it I'd say my defense of Dave Chappelle and harsh words toward transactivist extremists. Apparently, I'm not the only one threatened on Medium for taking on the Transquisition as I call them :) I'll be here on Substack, where they don't give a shit what you write as long as you don't actively call for anyone's death, and I'm working on getting up and running on Vocal. Looking forward to your next piece.
"BTW I'm no longer on Medium...I got suspended last week for....well, I still don't know exactly what as they haven't told me. But I haven't begged for my account back yet and they never answered my initial query. If I had to put money on it I'd say my defense of Dave Chappelle and harsh words toward transactivist extremists"
No way, really?! Have they still not gotten back to you? As much as I try to ignore conspiracy theories about "censorship", I've noticed that articles that Medium seems to take a very hard line with ant criticism of trans ideology, however polite or reasonable. Critical articles don't do well either it seems. I have a few things to say over the next few weeks so we'll see how that goes😅 Hope you get back there soon.
I won't be. I reminded them again they never told me why it was suspended, just quoted the chunk of the community guidelines which always seems to be about 'hateful' rhetoric and inciting violence. The first article they took down was White People Who Hate White People Are Racist which was a takedown of white self-hatred (but I never called on Black LIves Matter to kill all the idiot liberals, lol) and the one I wrote suggesting that if we accept gender-switching at face value, if we can accept that a man can become a woman and vice versa, what's so terribly about race-switching like Rachel Dolezal? And I noted black people can do it too and I cited Michael Jackson as evidence that black people *can* become white if they have the money for it. Whether Jackson was trying to look more white or not, he had vitiligo but I've never been convinced that was the sole reason, black people *can* go white if they want. And then the Dave Chappelle thing was the last straw. (What the hell else would it be?) I'd already decided that if they suspended my account I was out of there. I have to be free to say what needs to be said and it's clear from my experience and some details others have shared with me that Medium DOES have an unofficial anti-trans-critique policy there.
So as a consequence I've gotten VERY interested in the science behind transgender issues, the mob takedowns of any scientist who doesn't support their ideology, and especially The Trans Taboo That Must Not Be Named, autogynephilia, which seems to explain a LOT about why transactivists act and speak so much like traditional, old-school, garden variety misogynist cis-het men, oozing with entitlement and more willing to attack women/feminists who stand up to them, rather than the male attackers of transfolk who are the REAL problem.
While the tone was more pointed than your norm, it is valuable as an example of frustration becoming hostility. Paraphrasing Thomas Sowell, ~It is an imperfect world with no perfect solutions. Compromise is the best that we can do.~ We currently see less and less willingness to have conversation where mutual compromise is possible (productive conversation). Mike Tyson thinks it is because from behind a keyboard disrespect won't bring a punch in the face so people do it more freely.
Our reactions and responses are to a thing, but also to whatever else is currently in our life and in our history. That can amplify or diminish. It is good to politely respond when our urge is to tell someone to eff themselves, but it doesn't always happen they way. You generally do a good job at trying to make conversation productive which is why I read your thoughts and now, interact with you. Perfection is the enemy of good and perfection doesn't exist in humanity. The conversation did end better than it started. Good, despite the imperfection of the start.
I admit I too was shocked by the strength of your response. The tone was disrespectful from the outset in a way I’ve not come to expect from you.
Though I understand why you were incensed. If you need to be reminded you are not crazy or alone, and you have not read Woke Racism yet, it’s totally validating. But if you chose to spend the week binge-watching Battlestar Galactica instead (ok, maybe that’s my escape fantasy?), no one would judge. This topic must be exhausting.
Yeah, this conversation is over half a year old, so I'm much better at managing frustration today (Woke Racism is on my reading list though 😁), but my second reply really sums up why I reacted the way I did.
Having somebody talk down to me about racism, in their opening comment, because of an incredibly bad-faith reading of a single line in an article devoted to saying that we should be working to *fix* racism in *all* its forms, killed all hope that a productive conversation was a possibility.
Maybe it doesn't come across this way to you, but Cory's comment was far more disrespectful than my reply in my opinion. If I was unsure about how a female writer had phrased a sentence or a gay writer had phrased a sentence, I wouldn't dream of implying they wanted to ignore misogyny or homophobia and I *certainly* wouldn't condescend to them about what would or wouldn't make these problems disappear.
I consider it part of my job to contribute to polite and meaningful discourse. But I don't consider it my sole responsibility. The person I'm talking to has to at least attempt to do their part. As Cory himself says, there are a million better ways he could have expressed that thought. None of which would have elicited my response or even annoyed me. I think of the millions on offer, he literally chose the worst one.
Off topic but the only way I know to communicate with you. You might find this to be of interest (I hope so), some history that is not politicized (something we need). I first met Dom Flemons years ago when the annual Folk and Heritage Festival was still in Phoenix and had not yet moved to Glendale. Nice guy, one of the founders of The Carolina Chocolate Drops. https://folkways-media.si.edu/liner_notes/smithsonian_folkways/SFW40224.pdf
Feh, we all get triggered.
Good job of turning it around including admitting that you didn't handle the debate as well as you might.
So hey, didn't know you were a flaming conservative, Steve :) So am I to hear some tell it...one Mediumite even called me a Handmaid. LOL.
I understood exactly what you meant when I first read the line about how black racism writing needs to emphasize nothing but suffering. When you sarcastically refer to the people who write Four Words You Should Never Say To A Black Person I know who you're talking about...several whos :) It's the chronic perma-victim mentality, and as you don't live life perpetually under attack by the Klan, I don't live my life being raped all day long by The Patriarchy, so I feel your frustration.
It was interesting to see how the argument started off hot but then slowly cooled down over the course of several exchanges. You're a better one than I...but I get what you're saying about the need to engage with people if you can, or for as long as you can, to try and end the divisiveness. I have a nurse friend here in Toronto who told our weekly Virtual Cocktail Hour a few weeks ago that she doesn't argue with people. When they say weird or offensive things, she asks, "Really? Why do you feel this way? Why do you think this person said blah?" She tries to understand why they said or reacted the way they did to something rather than saying, "You vile deplorable!"
BTW I'm no longer on Medium...I got suspended last week for....well, I still don't know exactly what as they haven't told me. But I haven't begged for my account back yet and they never answered my initial query. If I had to put money on it I'd say my defense of Dave Chappelle and harsh words toward transactivist extremists. Apparently, I'm not the only one threatened on Medium for taking on the Transquisition as I call them :) I'll be here on Substack, where they don't give a shit what you write as long as you don't actively call for anyone's death, and I'm working on getting up and running on Vocal. Looking forward to your next piece.
"BTW I'm no longer on Medium...I got suspended last week for....well, I still don't know exactly what as they haven't told me. But I haven't begged for my account back yet and they never answered my initial query. If I had to put money on it I'd say my defense of Dave Chappelle and harsh words toward transactivist extremists"
No way, really?! Have they still not gotten back to you? As much as I try to ignore conspiracy theories about "censorship", I've noticed that articles that Medium seems to take a very hard line with ant criticism of trans ideology, however polite or reasonable. Critical articles don't do well either it seems. I have a few things to say over the next few weeks so we'll see how that goes😅 Hope you get back there soon.
I won't be. I reminded them again they never told me why it was suspended, just quoted the chunk of the community guidelines which always seems to be about 'hateful' rhetoric and inciting violence. The first article they took down was White People Who Hate White People Are Racist which was a takedown of white self-hatred (but I never called on Black LIves Matter to kill all the idiot liberals, lol) and the one I wrote suggesting that if we accept gender-switching at face value, if we can accept that a man can become a woman and vice versa, what's so terribly about race-switching like Rachel Dolezal? And I noted black people can do it too and I cited Michael Jackson as evidence that black people *can* become white if they have the money for it. Whether Jackson was trying to look more white or not, he had vitiligo but I've never been convinced that was the sole reason, black people *can* go white if they want. And then the Dave Chappelle thing was the last straw. (What the hell else would it be?) I'd already decided that if they suspended my account I was out of there. I have to be free to say what needs to be said and it's clear from my experience and some details others have shared with me that Medium DOES have an unofficial anti-trans-critique policy there.
So as a consequence I've gotten VERY interested in the science behind transgender issues, the mob takedowns of any scientist who doesn't support their ideology, and especially The Trans Taboo That Must Not Be Named, autogynephilia, which seems to explain a LOT about why transactivists act and speak so much like traditional, old-school, garden variety misogynist cis-het men, oozing with entitlement and more willing to attack women/feminists who stand up to them, rather than the male attackers of transfolk who are the REAL problem.
Seen this? https://medium.com/the-bad-influence/medium-we-have-a-problem-9f388f84466f
While the tone was more pointed than your norm, it is valuable as an example of frustration becoming hostility. Paraphrasing Thomas Sowell, ~It is an imperfect world with no perfect solutions. Compromise is the best that we can do.~ We currently see less and less willingness to have conversation where mutual compromise is possible (productive conversation). Mike Tyson thinks it is because from behind a keyboard disrespect won't bring a punch in the face so people do it more freely.
Our reactions and responses are to a thing, but also to whatever else is currently in our life and in our history. That can amplify or diminish. It is good to politely respond when our urge is to tell someone to eff themselves, but it doesn't always happen they way. You generally do a good job at trying to make conversation productive which is why I read your thoughts and now, interact with you. Perfection is the enemy of good and perfection doesn't exist in humanity. The conversation did end better than it started. Good, despite the imperfection of the start.
I admit I too was shocked by the strength of your response. The tone was disrespectful from the outset in a way I’ve not come to expect from you.
Though I understand why you were incensed. If you need to be reminded you are not crazy or alone, and you have not read Woke Racism yet, it’s totally validating. But if you chose to spend the week binge-watching Battlestar Galactica instead (ok, maybe that’s my escape fantasy?), no one would judge. This topic must be exhausting.
Yeah, this conversation is over half a year old, so I'm much better at managing frustration today (Woke Racism is on my reading list though 😁), but my second reply really sums up why I reacted the way I did.
Having somebody talk down to me about racism, in their opening comment, because of an incredibly bad-faith reading of a single line in an article devoted to saying that we should be working to *fix* racism in *all* its forms, killed all hope that a productive conversation was a possibility.
Maybe it doesn't come across this way to you, but Cory's comment was far more disrespectful than my reply in my opinion. If I was unsure about how a female writer had phrased a sentence or a gay writer had phrased a sentence, I wouldn't dream of implying they wanted to ignore misogyny or homophobia and I *certainly* wouldn't condescend to them about what would or wouldn't make these problems disappear.
I consider it part of my job to contribute to polite and meaningful discourse. But I don't consider it my sole responsibility. The person I'm talking to has to at least attempt to do their part. As Cory himself says, there are a million better ways he could have expressed that thought. None of which would have elicited my response or even annoyed me. I think of the millions on offer, he literally chose the worst one.
Off topic but the only way I know to communicate with you. You might find this to be of interest (I hope so), some history that is not politicized (something we need). I first met Dom Flemons years ago when the annual Folk and Heritage Festival was still in Phoenix and had not yet moved to Glendale. Nice guy, one of the founders of The Carolina Chocolate Drops. https://folkways-media.si.edu/liner_notes/smithsonian_folkways/SFW40224.pdf