"but if that had been a protest AGAINST Trump it would have been labeled "mostly peaceful" by the media"
Jesus, why do people say things like this? Yes, there is a liberal bias in the media. Mainly because liberals are more commonly found in media and but also partly because reality has a liberal bias.
"but if that had been a protest AGAINST Trump it would have been labeled "mostly peaceful" by the media"
Jesus, why do people say things like this? Yes, there is a liberal bias in the media. Mainly because liberals are more commonly found in media and but also partly because reality has a liberal bias.
It is simply not possible to cover Trump's Republicans and Biden's Democrats as if they're equally good/bad and be doing your job as a journalist. However much you hate the Democrats (and I'm not saying you personally do or don't), there is no equivalent to Trump's attempts to steal the election or undermine faith in democracy or undermine America's intelligence agencies in favour of Putin, among the Democrats.
But anyway, yes, there is a liberal bias in the media. But if a bunch of Democrats, in protest about Trump, had stormed the Capitol building, beaten police with the American flag, and smeared their shit on the walls, the media would not have reported it as "Mostly peaceful." This is ridiculous and you know it. And if they *had* done these things, you wouldn't be saying it was "the weakest protest ever."
An insurrection is not"weak" when it gets to the point where there is a gallows outside the Capitol building and a mob shouting to hang Mike Pence as elected officials are trying to certify the results of a democratic election.
Yes, the media suppressed the Hunter Biden laptop story. This is extremely bad, and highlights the bias in the media that you refer to. I'm not downplaying this problem. But you can't act as if it cancels out all of the stuff Trump has done. This is much more in the same ballpark as Trump's tax fraud or his connections to Jeffrey Epstein (which also haven't been covered in the press) or his adulation of Vladimir Putin.
If nobody had ever found out about Hunter Biden's laptop, it would have been unjust, but literally nothing would have happened in the world. It wouldn't have affected your life or the state of democracy on America or, really much of anything. Nobody truly cares about the laptop, they care about the lies, which, as I said, is totally valid.
But for some reason, the same people don't care about Trump's lies. And Trump's lies have destroyed politics in America. I watched the McCain vs Obama debate a few weeks ago. And McCain's concession speech when he lost (y'know, the speech Trump still hasn't given) and you should be weeping for what Trump has stolen from America.
You can't say anything bad about Trump that I'm likely to disagree with. I do care about Trump's lies. I just don't think that they rise above the egregious behavior of his opponents.
Trump claimed that there were 250,000 or so people at the rally on Jan 6. Other estimates put the number at about 80,000. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, about 1,100 people have been arrested in connection with the January 6 attack as of late 2023, many, but not all of whom entered the Capitol building. The breach involved individuals engaging in illegal activities, including vandalism, theft, and violence, while some entered the building without causing harm.
That's a very small percentage of people that came to the rally. They committed crimes, and they are being prosecuted at a level out of proportion to people that burned down enough buildings to rate the Floyd protests as the most expensive civil unrest ever with insured losses totaling between 1 and 2 billion dollars. Actual losses were certainly higher as these were only insured losses. I asked chat-GPT because I did not know how else to approach the question and this was part of the answer "...those involved in serious crimes like looting or violence during the George Floyd protests also faced significant penalties, though typically less severe than those imposed on January 6 rioters."
This was the query I submitted if you want to read the whole answer. "have jan 6 protesters received harsher sentences than George Floyd protesters?"
I think you are probably familiar with Handwaving Freakoutery. If you aren't you should be. He is awesome. Here is his measure of Civil Unrest where he compares Jan 6 and other events to the "Mostly Peaceful Summer of 2020". https://hwfo.substack.com/p/a-new-unit-of-measure-for-civil-unrest Jan 6 barely registers.
Yes, the protesters wanted the results of the election changed. Protesters always want some change. But not a single person has even been charged with "insurrection" and they were clearly unprepared to overthrow the government. Hell, Madonna wants to blow up the white house. And protesters often say very bad things, like "Hang Mike Pence" or "Kill all Cops". That's wrong but it's not insurrection.
I love your work as I think you are an objective observer. I just disagree that this is a false equivalence.
“Trump claimed that there were 250,000 or so people at the rally on Jan 6. Other estimates put the number at about 80,000.”
😅Trump in a nutshell.
Nobody cares how many people were at the rally. If the people had stayed outside instead of actually trying to stop the certification, it would have been mostly a “nothing burger” as the kids like to say (although Trump’s lies would still be a huge issue).
So no, setting up a gallows and shouting “Hang Mike Pence” isn’t an insurrection, but storming into the Capitol building as elected officials try to certify a democratic election, physically attacking Capitol police as they try to prevent you, and sending the aforementioned officials into lockdown because they legitimately fear for their life? Yes, I think that’s an attempted insurrection. It did, in fact, delay the certification. And the stated aim, from Trump himself, was to pressure Mike Pence not to accept the results.
So yes, I do think the Jan 6th protestors should have received harsher sentences than the BLM rioters (although I’m not sure I think the people who *didn’t* enter the building should have received much punishment), because this wasn’t just a riot, it was an attack on democracy. Riots are bad, but a riot that attempts to overthrow the will of the people is, at least to me, very obviously worse.
"but if that had been a protest AGAINST Trump it would have been labeled "mostly peaceful" by the media"
Jesus, why do people say things like this? Yes, there is a liberal bias in the media. Mainly because liberals are more commonly found in media and but also partly because reality has a liberal bias.
It is simply not possible to cover Trump's Republicans and Biden's Democrats as if they're equally good/bad and be doing your job as a journalist. However much you hate the Democrats (and I'm not saying you personally do or don't), there is no equivalent to Trump's attempts to steal the election or undermine faith in democracy or undermine America's intelligence agencies in favour of Putin, among the Democrats.
But anyway, yes, there is a liberal bias in the media. But if a bunch of Democrats, in protest about Trump, had stormed the Capitol building, beaten police with the American flag, and smeared their shit on the walls, the media would not have reported it as "Mostly peaceful." This is ridiculous and you know it. And if they *had* done these things, you wouldn't be saying it was "the weakest protest ever."
An insurrection is not"weak" when it gets to the point where there is a gallows outside the Capitol building and a mob shouting to hang Mike Pence as elected officials are trying to certify the results of a democratic election.
Yes, the media suppressed the Hunter Biden laptop story. This is extremely bad, and highlights the bias in the media that you refer to. I'm not downplaying this problem. But you can't act as if it cancels out all of the stuff Trump has done. This is much more in the same ballpark as Trump's tax fraud or his connections to Jeffrey Epstein (which also haven't been covered in the press) or his adulation of Vladimir Putin.
If nobody had ever found out about Hunter Biden's laptop, it would have been unjust, but literally nothing would have happened in the world. It wouldn't have affected your life or the state of democracy on America or, really much of anything. Nobody truly cares about the laptop, they care about the lies, which, as I said, is totally valid.
But for some reason, the same people don't care about Trump's lies. And Trump's lies have destroyed politics in America. I watched the McCain vs Obama debate a few weeks ago. And McCain's concession speech when he lost (y'know, the speech Trump still hasn't given) and you should be weeping for what Trump has stolen from America.
You can't say anything bad about Trump that I'm likely to disagree with. I do care about Trump's lies. I just don't think that they rise above the egregious behavior of his opponents.
Trump claimed that there were 250,000 or so people at the rally on Jan 6. Other estimates put the number at about 80,000. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, about 1,100 people have been arrested in connection with the January 6 attack as of late 2023, many, but not all of whom entered the Capitol building. The breach involved individuals engaging in illegal activities, including vandalism, theft, and violence, while some entered the building without causing harm.
That's a very small percentage of people that came to the rally. They committed crimes, and they are being prosecuted at a level out of proportion to people that burned down enough buildings to rate the Floyd protests as the most expensive civil unrest ever with insured losses totaling between 1 and 2 billion dollars. Actual losses were certainly higher as these were only insured losses. I asked chat-GPT because I did not know how else to approach the question and this was part of the answer "...those involved in serious crimes like looting or violence during the George Floyd protests also faced significant penalties, though typically less severe than those imposed on January 6 rioters."
This was the query I submitted if you want to read the whole answer. "have jan 6 protesters received harsher sentences than George Floyd protesters?"
I think you are probably familiar with Handwaving Freakoutery. If you aren't you should be. He is awesome. Here is his measure of Civil Unrest where he compares Jan 6 and other events to the "Mostly Peaceful Summer of 2020". https://hwfo.substack.com/p/a-new-unit-of-measure-for-civil-unrest Jan 6 barely registers.
Yes, the protesters wanted the results of the election changed. Protesters always want some change. But not a single person has even been charged with "insurrection" and they were clearly unprepared to overthrow the government. Hell, Madonna wants to blow up the white house. And protesters often say very bad things, like "Hang Mike Pence" or "Kill all Cops". That's wrong but it's not insurrection.
I love your work as I think you are an objective observer. I just disagree that this is a false equivalence.
“Trump claimed that there were 250,000 or so people at the rally on Jan 6. Other estimates put the number at about 80,000.”
😅Trump in a nutshell.
Nobody cares how many people were at the rally. If the people had stayed outside instead of actually trying to stop the certification, it would have been mostly a “nothing burger” as the kids like to say (although Trump’s lies would still be a huge issue).
But as you know, they went much, much further than that. And they knew what they were doing. This wasn’t just some spur of the moment rush of blood (https://x.com/january6thcmte/status/1535082372030414861?s=61&t=jJ3uxN_f76fIkbFMc7zXqg) (please do watch this, I think a lot of people have forgotten what went down that day).
So no, setting up a gallows and shouting “Hang Mike Pence” isn’t an insurrection, but storming into the Capitol building as elected officials try to certify a democratic election, physically attacking Capitol police as they try to prevent you, and sending the aforementioned officials into lockdown because they legitimately fear for their life? Yes, I think that’s an attempted insurrection. It did, in fact, delay the certification. And the stated aim, from Trump himself, was to pressure Mike Pence not to accept the results.
So yes, I do think the Jan 6th protestors should have received harsher sentences than the BLM rioters (although I’m not sure I think the people who *didn’t* enter the building should have received much punishment), because this wasn’t just a riot, it was an attack on democracy. Riots are bad, but a riot that attempts to overthrow the will of the people is, at least to me, very obviously worse.