"So, it was fascinating to see how ‘worked up’ you got over the inability of someone to see ( and clearly respond to) the simple dilemma that you posed."
😅 Yeah, it was fascinating to watch in myself! This conversation took place over the course of a few days. And it was one of the few that I couldn't get out of my head once I'd stepped …
"So, it was fascinating to see how ‘worked up’ you got over the inability of someone to see ( and clearly respond to) the simple dilemma that you posed."
😅 Yeah, it was fascinating to watch in myself! This conversation took place over the course of a few days. And it was one of the few that I couldn't get out of my head once I'd stepped away from the computer. I was talking to my friends about it. Reading and re-reading his replies wondering if I was the one missing something. It was a trip!
As I've said, I've had so many conversations on so many topics. Most of them about race. I've spoken to plenty of outright racists over the years, and I've never found it so difficult to separate my dislike for somebody's views from my dislike for the person. I think it was just the dishonesty and stupidity of his arguments, coupled with his utter disdain for the boundaries and safety of women and girls, that created the perfect storm.
As for what it feels like to be a man or a woman, I've also asked many of my friends. None of them could answer either, because the concept is logically incoherent at best and regressive at worst. It's fascinating to hear the same people talking about getting rid of gender also talking about how girls how like "boy's toys" or boys who are sensitive must literally be the opposite gender.
That said, as I wrote in the conversation, I don't think trans people are faking. Feelings simply *are* logically incoherent sometimes. I compare it to being in love. How do you know you've been in love? Could you describe it to somebody else? Do you think if you asked somebody to define it their definition would map perfectly onto yours? Yet I'm guessing you're certain that you've been in love at some point.
I think some trans people create an image of manhood or womanhood in their minds and they project onto it. For others it's about being perceived in a certain way (or not having to live up to the expectations of their gender). Others simply feel intense discomfort with their secondary sex characteristics and want to change them. I'm sure for others it's something else. Arguably the notion that there is such a thing as a "feeling" that accompanies gender is a feature of being trans. I've never met somebody who *isnt* trans who experienced the same feeling.
The fundamental problem is that you're not allowed to admit that gender dysphoria is a mental condition anymore. But of course it is. How else do you describe a condition where your internal sense of yourself doesn't match external reality? How else do you describe a condition that if left untreated leads to higher incidence of suicide and self harm? There needn't be shame in admitting that it's a condition. Just as we don't shame people for having schizophrenia, say. The question is simply how do we best help people with dysphoria? I absolutely believe we should help them (and everybody) as much as possible. We just need to figure out how to do so without opening women up to harm.
"So, it was fascinating to see how ‘worked up’ you got over the inability of someone to see ( and clearly respond to) the simple dilemma that you posed."
😅 Yeah, it was fascinating to watch in myself! This conversation took place over the course of a few days. And it was one of the few that I couldn't get out of my head once I'd stepped away from the computer. I was talking to my friends about it. Reading and re-reading his replies wondering if I was the one missing something. It was a trip!
As I've said, I've had so many conversations on so many topics. Most of them about race. I've spoken to plenty of outright racists over the years, and I've never found it so difficult to separate my dislike for somebody's views from my dislike for the person. I think it was just the dishonesty and stupidity of his arguments, coupled with his utter disdain for the boundaries and safety of women and girls, that created the perfect storm.
As for what it feels like to be a man or a woman, I've also asked many of my friends. None of them could answer either, because the concept is logically incoherent at best and regressive at worst. It's fascinating to hear the same people talking about getting rid of gender also talking about how girls how like "boy's toys" or boys who are sensitive must literally be the opposite gender.
That said, as I wrote in the conversation, I don't think trans people are faking. Feelings simply *are* logically incoherent sometimes. I compare it to being in love. How do you know you've been in love? Could you describe it to somebody else? Do you think if you asked somebody to define it their definition would map perfectly onto yours? Yet I'm guessing you're certain that you've been in love at some point.
I think some trans people create an image of manhood or womanhood in their minds and they project onto it. For others it's about being perceived in a certain way (or not having to live up to the expectations of their gender). Others simply feel intense discomfort with their secondary sex characteristics and want to change them. I'm sure for others it's something else. Arguably the notion that there is such a thing as a "feeling" that accompanies gender is a feature of being trans. I've never met somebody who *isnt* trans who experienced the same feeling.
The fundamental problem is that you're not allowed to admit that gender dysphoria is a mental condition anymore. But of course it is. How else do you describe a condition where your internal sense of yourself doesn't match external reality? How else do you describe a condition that if left untreated leads to higher incidence of suicide and self harm? There needn't be shame in admitting that it's a condition. Just as we don't shame people for having schizophrenia, say. The question is simply how do we best help people with dysphoria? I absolutely believe we should help them (and everybody) as much as possible. We just need to figure out how to do so without opening women up to harm.