Thank you for arguing on the behalf of women. You outline perfectly what the conflict is. Self ID is going to fail sooner or later and we are going to have to deal with the fallout. Unfortunately, some women are going to be hurt in the interim. There is a happy medium in here somewhere and a solution (some kind of testing or screening), …
Thank you for arguing on the behalf of women. You outline perfectly what the conflict is. Self ID is going to fail sooner or later and we are going to have to deal with the fallout. Unfortunately, some women are going to be hurt in the interim. There is a happy medium in here somewhere and a solution (some kind of testing or screening), but it won't be reached via defensive, irrational, hyperbolic thought.
I think the real truth about trans activists is that they are so desperate to secure rights for trans people, that they just don't care if they make the lives of cis women worse. They rationalize that trans folk have been harassed, vilified, incarcerated, murdered, and driven to suicide for millennia. So, it's their turn to ignore the well-being of others to achieve their agenda. I completely understand their POV. But I adamantly oppose it. It is not acceptable to diminish women's rights to secure rights for trans women.
Not even being able to have the conversation is a huge problem that is in the way of finding actual solutions. But, you are dealing with a "righteous mind." John McWhorter calls this type of woke person "the Elect" - people who have anointed themselves as the arbiters of ultimate truth and will not be swayed. Their cause is so righteous and just that any behavior or argument they make is also righteous and just, even if it causes harm to others.
I love how valiant you were in trying to reach this person. Your arguments were lucid, concise, and fair. You are seeking a solution that doesn't dehumanize anyone and works for everyone. He just refused to see that.
The whole fight against woke ideology is encapsulated in your statement: “God, you ’woke‘ lot are so convinced you have the moral high ground, you don’t even see that your arguments are almost always dripping with racism and/or misogyny.” This is the problem in a nutshell. They have declared the right to dehumanize in pursuit of their perfect world. And this position/sentiment is the very crux of every single mass extermination event that has ever happened on this planet.
One of the reasons I subscribed to your substack was to support your arguments. You are very, very good at reasoned debate, maybe the best I've read. And, I read widely on woke ideology as it scares the crap out of me. All puritanical, orthodox belief systems that justify destruction of people and lives scare the crap out of me. I say this as a former lefty, now independent. I so appreciate the work you are doing. Thank you!
"They rationalize that trans folk have been harassed, vilified, incarcerated, murdered, and driven to suicide for millennia."
I mean, maybe I'm ignorant on this issue, but is this true? In the west, medical transition has only been feasible for what? The past 50 years at most? Before that trans people would have meant transvestites or sissies. Tomboys and butch women. They certainly faced stigma and abuse, they were certainly forced to hide who they were, and I'm very glad that's less the case today than it was. I think society as a whole benefits from continuing to free people from gender policing. But women have lived with the exact same problems in addition to those that come with being female.
Elsewhere in the world, trans people are much more widely accepted as far as I understand. Although they aren't called trans. Thailand, India, Samoa. Gender fluidity is much more normalised in other cultures. What strikes me as unique about the trans movement in the West, is that it tries to deny or at least obfuscate the difference between male and female. These other cultures don't do this. And it's this denialism which I think is causing 90% of the tension.
In fact, one of the most prominent trans men, and a key figure in breaking down barriers in trans acceptance and visibility, Buck Angel, is an outcast in today's trans community because he's unwilling to obfuscate the difference between male and female.
And thank you for your kind words. Woke ideology is a genuinely terrifying threat to society. Puritanical is precisely the word. And the worst thing is that they've weaponised people's instincts to be kind to allow the most cruel, bigoted, spiteful people to believe they're on the "right side of history." These movements always collapse under their own evil in the end. The problem, as you say, is how much harm they'll do before that happens.
I actually don't know if it's true. I know that it has been true for many gay people and I have read these claims pertaining to trans folk on various media. How much is true and how much is hyperbole I don't know. But, my general impression is that TRAs believe it's true.
Thank you for arguing on the behalf of women. You outline perfectly what the conflict is. Self ID is going to fail sooner or later and we are going to have to deal with the fallout. Unfortunately, some women are going to be hurt in the interim. There is a happy medium in here somewhere and a solution (some kind of testing or screening), but it won't be reached via defensive, irrational, hyperbolic thought.
I think the real truth about trans activists is that they are so desperate to secure rights for trans people, that they just don't care if they make the lives of cis women worse. They rationalize that trans folk have been harassed, vilified, incarcerated, murdered, and driven to suicide for millennia. So, it's their turn to ignore the well-being of others to achieve their agenda. I completely understand their POV. But I adamantly oppose it. It is not acceptable to diminish women's rights to secure rights for trans women.
Not even being able to have the conversation is a huge problem that is in the way of finding actual solutions. But, you are dealing with a "righteous mind." John McWhorter calls this type of woke person "the Elect" - people who have anointed themselves as the arbiters of ultimate truth and will not be swayed. Their cause is so righteous and just that any behavior or argument they make is also righteous and just, even if it causes harm to others.
I love how valiant you were in trying to reach this person. Your arguments were lucid, concise, and fair. You are seeking a solution that doesn't dehumanize anyone and works for everyone. He just refused to see that.
The whole fight against woke ideology is encapsulated in your statement: “God, you ’woke‘ lot are so convinced you have the moral high ground, you don’t even see that your arguments are almost always dripping with racism and/or misogyny.” This is the problem in a nutshell. They have declared the right to dehumanize in pursuit of their perfect world. And this position/sentiment is the very crux of every single mass extermination event that has ever happened on this planet.
One of the reasons I subscribed to your substack was to support your arguments. You are very, very good at reasoned debate, maybe the best I've read. And, I read widely on woke ideology as it scares the crap out of me. All puritanical, orthodox belief systems that justify destruction of people and lives scare the crap out of me. I say this as a former lefty, now independent. I so appreciate the work you are doing. Thank you!
"They rationalize that trans folk have been harassed, vilified, incarcerated, murdered, and driven to suicide for millennia."
I mean, maybe I'm ignorant on this issue, but is this true? In the west, medical transition has only been feasible for what? The past 50 years at most? Before that trans people would have meant transvestites or sissies. Tomboys and butch women. They certainly faced stigma and abuse, they were certainly forced to hide who they were, and I'm very glad that's less the case today than it was. I think society as a whole benefits from continuing to free people from gender policing. But women have lived with the exact same problems in addition to those that come with being female.
Elsewhere in the world, trans people are much more widely accepted as far as I understand. Although they aren't called trans. Thailand, India, Samoa. Gender fluidity is much more normalised in other cultures. What strikes me as unique about the trans movement in the West, is that it tries to deny or at least obfuscate the difference between male and female. These other cultures don't do this. And it's this denialism which I think is causing 90% of the tension.
In fact, one of the most prominent trans men, and a key figure in breaking down barriers in trans acceptance and visibility, Buck Angel, is an outcast in today's trans community because he's unwilling to obfuscate the difference between male and female.
And thank you for your kind words. Woke ideology is a genuinely terrifying threat to society. Puritanical is precisely the word. And the worst thing is that they've weaponised people's instincts to be kind to allow the most cruel, bigoted, spiteful people to believe they're on the "right side of history." These movements always collapse under their own evil in the end. The problem, as you say, is how much harm they'll do before that happens.
I actually don't know if it's true. I know that it has been true for many gay people and I have read these claims pertaining to trans folk on various media. How much is true and how much is hyperbole I don't know. But, my general impression is that TRAs believe it's true.