Off the top of my head, I know there are groups for male batterers to help them stop from reoffending. I think there may be some campus groups where male students walk women to their cars a night.
There are also numerous groups formed by women to both prevent and deal with the aftermath of male violence. RAINN, NCADV, groups that talk to…
Off the top of my head, I know there are groups for male batterers to help them stop from reoffending. I think there may be some campus groups where male students walk women to their cars a night.
There are also numerous groups formed by women to both prevent and deal with the aftermath of male violence. RAINN, NCADV, groups that talk to high school and college kids, Take Back the Night groups.
So, my point is that men are not spearheading this. And if over 25% of women experience male violence, it cannot be just 1-2% of men who are doing this. It has only been recently that we have talked as a country about how having sex with a woman too drunk to say no is rape.
I know men who have done this. They did not consider it to be rape. They were not “criminals.” Many of them were frat brothers or football teams. So, I think it is a different situation than dealing with murdered or thieves.
"And if over 25% of women experience male violence, it cannot be just 1-2% of men who are doing this."
Yeah, I'd have found it equally difficult to believe, until I crunched the numbers, that 0.008% of African Americans (at most) are responsible for 51% of homicides in America. I expected it to be pretty low, but I had to re-check the figures numerous times before I could convince myself it was *that* low. The type of man who would do something like this isn't likely to stop at doing it to one woman.
But look, no part of me wants to quibble with you here. Or minimise the efforts that are being made to deal with this problem. And especially not the problem itself. Education about consent is incredibly important. But the reason I made the comparison to murder or theft is that there is already a huge amount of messaging in society telling men that rape is wrong. Not to mention the law of course.
These men do what they do *despite* the messaging. Not because they honestly didn't realise that having sex with a woman who has passed out is wrong. I think those men you're talking about absolutely know what they did is wrong. They're just not going to admit it out loud.
Again, I'm not trying to minimise sexual violence in any way. Or deny that it's infuriating that more men don't step up in some way to deal with it. Even if that's just when they see something happening in front of them. My issue here is simply with broadening responsibility out to everybody who shares a particular trait with the person causing the problem.
I appreciate the dialogue. I admin a group on FB called Headstrong Lesbians and this is our goal, too. Good dialogue exploring contentious topics, not making each other the enemy. Allow others to feel valued even when we disagree with them.
Off the top of my head, I know there are groups for male batterers to help them stop from reoffending. I think there may be some campus groups where male students walk women to their cars a night.
There are also numerous groups formed by women to both prevent and deal with the aftermath of male violence. RAINN, NCADV, groups that talk to high school and college kids, Take Back the Night groups.
So, my point is that men are not spearheading this. And if over 25% of women experience male violence, it cannot be just 1-2% of men who are doing this. It has only been recently that we have talked as a country about how having sex with a woman too drunk to say no is rape.
I know men who have done this. They did not consider it to be rape. They were not “criminals.” Many of them were frat brothers or football teams. So, I think it is a different situation than dealing with murdered or thieves.
"And if over 25% of women experience male violence, it cannot be just 1-2% of men who are doing this."
Yeah, I'd have found it equally difficult to believe, until I crunched the numbers, that 0.008% of African Americans (at most) are responsible for 51% of homicides in America. I expected it to be pretty low, but I had to re-check the figures numerous times before I could convince myself it was *that* low. The type of man who would do something like this isn't likely to stop at doing it to one woman.
But look, no part of me wants to quibble with you here. Or minimise the efforts that are being made to deal with this problem. And especially not the problem itself. Education about consent is incredibly important. But the reason I made the comparison to murder or theft is that there is already a huge amount of messaging in society telling men that rape is wrong. Not to mention the law of course.
These men do what they do *despite* the messaging. Not because they honestly didn't realise that having sex with a woman who has passed out is wrong. I think those men you're talking about absolutely know what they did is wrong. They're just not going to admit it out loud.
Again, I'm not trying to minimise sexual violence in any way. Or deny that it's infuriating that more men don't step up in some way to deal with it. Even if that's just when they see something happening in front of them. My issue here is simply with broadening responsibility out to everybody who shares a particular trait with the person causing the problem.
I appreciate the dialogue. I admin a group on FB called Headstrong Lesbians and this is our goal, too. Good dialogue exploring contentious topics, not making each other the enemy. Allow others to feel valued even when we disagree with them.
Keep up the good work, Steve!