There's always the possibility that Eli used the story to try and 'one up' Steve. I have a sneaking suspicion (I will write about this one day) that some women use rape (my suspicion is that they're *alleged* rapes) to shut down conversations. Like, they pull it out of nowhere when they don't like where the conversation is going (i.e., t…
There's always the possibility that Eli used the story to try and 'one up' Steve. I have a sneaking suspicion (I will write about this one day) that some women use rape (my suspicion is that they're *alleged* rapes) to shut down conversations. Like, they pull it out of nowhere when they don't like where the conversation is going (i.e., they're not convincing me of something). Whether Eli was sexually abused or not, it was inappropriate for her to invoke it in a conversation having nothing to do with sexual abuse.
This sort of thing (childhood abuse, rape) coming out of nowhere has happened to me so often over the decades with women, that I've begun to doubt whether many or all of them actually occurred. Sexual assault allegations have taken on a thou-shall-not-question mantle of sacred writ and I suspect at least some women are using it to try and shut down conversations.
My response now is, "I'm sorry to hear that but I still think blah blah blah."
This response saddens me. I wonder if you have considered why you need to control the conversation in this way. Not only do you shut the door to feeling the other person’s vulnerability, but you go a step further to deny her experiences. “I’m sorry to hear that, but _I_ still think blah blah blah.”
Sexual abuse and assault are extraordinarily common, so it is likely that many of the women you encounter have experienced it. That doesn’t mean their disclosures are always appropriate for the setting. I believe you that at times such disclosures have derailed conversations. I don’t need to deny others’ experiences in order to hold both of those truths. Sometimes people’s traumas come bubbling out when they least expect it with people who can’t help. That happens to all of us.
Yeah, it usually comes 'bubbling up' when they don't like where the conversation is going. It's supposed to be the mic drop. And it was, when I was younger, until I realized it was likely a subtle bullying tactic, and it happened so much I began privately questioning its truth to myself. I'm hardly trying to control the conversation; I'm trying to keep it moving forward despite this unnecessary information.
Yes, I know rape and sexual abuse are common, but not as much as we may think, especially today when the meanings of words like 'rape', 'sexual assault' and 'violence' have become broadened to the point where they don't mean much anymore. And now, with the anonymity of social media, women can lie about rape if they want, and no one knows, nor do they run the risk of repercussions unless they name names. When MeToo got so popular, I'd scroll through the 'confessions' and sometimes wonder if some of them were making it up to get some (anonymous) attention for themselves, feel good about joining the sisterhood, maybe scoring a few political points. Just this morning I read about two women who out-and-out lied about rape testimony they gave in Take Back The Night marches in the '90s. And I began to really suspect some of today's me-too stories when I encountered a young woman on Medium a few years ago who rattled off her list of alleged sexual abuses almost proudly, as though she was listing her academic accomplishments. It lacked the authenticity I've seen with so many other stories. It was the first time I ever thought, "You are out-and-out lying."
So yeah, I think there's a lot more rape lying going on than we know and we can't know for sure, although hey're mostly 'harmless' when they don't name any innocent men. That's a highly uncomfortable thought for a lot of women to digest, that other women may make up stories to be part of the 'sisterhood', score points or just try to one-up others in conversation. That's what I think this gal was doing to Steve, trying to shut down the conversation with a mic drop. Except it didn't work, and I'm glad. It wasn't even relevant to the conversation.
Anyone who thinks women don't lie has never known any women. We're no better than men. No worse, but no better.
So much of what Steve writes critically about 'antiracism' and overstated black victimhood applies as easily to feminism. White feminists and black antiracists have a helluva lot in common. I think Naomi Wolf nailed it best when she delineated between 'victim feminists' - those who identify with powerlessness and victimhood, and infantilize women, seeing them as weak and vulnerable and in need of constant protection - and 'power feminists' who identify with personal power and using it for the common good. I see exactly that within the antiracism movement - those who see blacks as constantly aggrieved and perpetual victims, and those who are tired of the self-infantilization and the constant finger-pointing at whites with no sense of personal responsibility for one's own life. One of my favourite black voices is John McWhorter, the language and race expert and commentator at Columbia University. Give his talks on YouTube's Bloggingheads a listen. Quite eye-opening to hear a black man (like Steve) talking about blacks as though they're adults with personal agency. I could take many of his talks, substitute 'women' for 'blacks', and it would be just as relevant.
I appreciate Steve’s rejection of binary narratives. I think it takes fortitude and compassion to accept the basic humanity of people on both sides and attempt to bridge the gap.
There's always the possibility that Eli used the story to try and 'one up' Steve. I have a sneaking suspicion (I will write about this one day) that some women use rape (my suspicion is that they're *alleged* rapes) to shut down conversations. Like, they pull it out of nowhere when they don't like where the conversation is going (i.e., they're not convincing me of something). Whether Eli was sexually abused or not, it was inappropriate for her to invoke it in a conversation having nothing to do with sexual abuse.
This sort of thing (childhood abuse, rape) coming out of nowhere has happened to me so often over the decades with women, that I've begun to doubt whether many or all of them actually occurred. Sexual assault allegations have taken on a thou-shall-not-question mantle of sacred writ and I suspect at least some women are using it to try and shut down conversations.
My response now is, "I'm sorry to hear that but I still think blah blah blah."
This response saddens me. I wonder if you have considered why you need to control the conversation in this way. Not only do you shut the door to feeling the other person’s vulnerability, but you go a step further to deny her experiences. “I’m sorry to hear that, but _I_ still think blah blah blah.”
Sexual abuse and assault are extraordinarily common, so it is likely that many of the women you encounter have experienced it. That doesn’t mean their disclosures are always appropriate for the setting. I believe you that at times such disclosures have derailed conversations. I don’t need to deny others’ experiences in order to hold both of those truths. Sometimes people’s traumas come bubbling out when they least expect it with people who can’t help. That happens to all of us.
Yeah, it usually comes 'bubbling up' when they don't like where the conversation is going. It's supposed to be the mic drop. And it was, when I was younger, until I realized it was likely a subtle bullying tactic, and it happened so much I began privately questioning its truth to myself. I'm hardly trying to control the conversation; I'm trying to keep it moving forward despite this unnecessary information.
Yes, I know rape and sexual abuse are common, but not as much as we may think, especially today when the meanings of words like 'rape', 'sexual assault' and 'violence' have become broadened to the point where they don't mean much anymore. And now, with the anonymity of social media, women can lie about rape if they want, and no one knows, nor do they run the risk of repercussions unless they name names. When MeToo got so popular, I'd scroll through the 'confessions' and sometimes wonder if some of them were making it up to get some (anonymous) attention for themselves, feel good about joining the sisterhood, maybe scoring a few political points. Just this morning I read about two women who out-and-out lied about rape testimony they gave in Take Back The Night marches in the '90s. And I began to really suspect some of today's me-too stories when I encountered a young woman on Medium a few years ago who rattled off her list of alleged sexual abuses almost proudly, as though she was listing her academic accomplishments. It lacked the authenticity I've seen with so many other stories. It was the first time I ever thought, "You are out-and-out lying."
So yeah, I think there's a lot more rape lying going on than we know and we can't know for sure, although hey're mostly 'harmless' when they don't name any innocent men. That's a highly uncomfortable thought for a lot of women to digest, that other women may make up stories to be part of the 'sisterhood', score points or just try to one-up others in conversation. That's what I think this gal was doing to Steve, trying to shut down the conversation with a mic drop. Except it didn't work, and I'm glad. It wasn't even relevant to the conversation.
Anyone who thinks women don't lie has never known any women. We're no better than men. No worse, but no better.
This response reminds me of Steve’s Medium article Some People vs. Most People.
I’m sorry you see the world in this way. We each get to choose what to focus on in this life.
I wonder, what is it you appreciate about Steve’s posts?
So much of what Steve writes critically about 'antiracism' and overstated black victimhood applies as easily to feminism. White feminists and black antiracists have a helluva lot in common. I think Naomi Wolf nailed it best when she delineated between 'victim feminists' - those who identify with powerlessness and victimhood, and infantilize women, seeing them as weak and vulnerable and in need of constant protection - and 'power feminists' who identify with personal power and using it for the common good. I see exactly that within the antiracism movement - those who see blacks as constantly aggrieved and perpetual victims, and those who are tired of the self-infantilization and the constant finger-pointing at whites with no sense of personal responsibility for one's own life. One of my favourite black voices is John McWhorter, the language and race expert and commentator at Columbia University. Give his talks on YouTube's Bloggingheads a listen. Quite eye-opening to hear a black man (like Steve) talking about blacks as though they're adults with personal agency. I could take many of his talks, substitute 'women' for 'blacks', and it would be just as relevant.
What do *you* get out of Steve's work?
I appreciate Steve’s rejection of binary narratives. I think it takes fortitude and compassion to accept the basic humanity of people on both sides and attempt to bridge the gap.