"You're contradicting yourself, Steve. First you say that the discourse is shut down and then that it continues on the alt-right forums."
No, there's no contradiction. What happens on places like 4chan simply isn't discourse, it's indoctrination. It's one sided, agenda-driven lies, with nobody even slightly interested in anything but boos…
"You're contradicting yourself, Steve. First you say that the discourse is shut down and then that it continues on the alt-right forums."
No, there's no contradiction. What happens on places like 4chan simply isn't discourse, it's indoctrination. It's one sided, agenda-driven lies, with nobody even slightly interested in anything but boosting their confirmation bias. That's how they produce ideas like QAnon and Pizzagate and Peyton Gendron's manifesto. Because their nonsense goes unchallenged. The same as on places like Tumblr (though mostly less dangerous to anybody but themselves).
Discourse happens in the mainstream. It has to. Because you need the smartest people from each side of an ideological position to put forward their best arguments without constraint. This, naturally has the largest impact on overall thinking on an issue.
Discourse affects journalists, it affects teachers, it affects politicians, and they affect everything else. And the more open the better. See China and Russia and North Korea, for the impact that stifling the open and honest exchange of ideas has. The quality of a society's thinking is a product of the quality of its discourse. Do you think this is a starry-eyed viewpoint? It genuinely doesn't seem so to me.
Some people, obviously, are beyond hope. In a world where all ideas are debated with perfect freedom and openness, there will still be extremists. There will still be people who knowingly lie and others who are dumb enough to believe them. There will still be people who simply don't care about anybody but themselves. I try to change the minds of people like these, or sometimes just expose the flaws in their arguments for other people, but you're right. I don't spend a lot of time on them. Dishonest people, even when they realise they're wrong, won't acknowledge it.
I'm not saying that open discourse will create a utopia. I'm saying that its our best method for getting as close as human beings can manage.
"You're contradicting yourself, Steve. First you say that the discourse is shut down and then that it continues on the alt-right forums."
No, there's no contradiction. What happens on places like 4chan simply isn't discourse, it's indoctrination. It's one sided, agenda-driven lies, with nobody even slightly interested in anything but boosting their confirmation bias. That's how they produce ideas like QAnon and Pizzagate and Peyton Gendron's manifesto. Because their nonsense goes unchallenged. The same as on places like Tumblr (though mostly less dangerous to anybody but themselves).
Discourse happens in the mainstream. It has to. Because you need the smartest people from each side of an ideological position to put forward their best arguments without constraint. This, naturally has the largest impact on overall thinking on an issue.
Discourse affects journalists, it affects teachers, it affects politicians, and they affect everything else. And the more open the better. See China and Russia and North Korea, for the impact that stifling the open and honest exchange of ideas has. The quality of a society's thinking is a product of the quality of its discourse. Do you think this is a starry-eyed viewpoint? It genuinely doesn't seem so to me.
Some people, obviously, are beyond hope. In a world where all ideas are debated with perfect freedom and openness, there will still be extremists. There will still be people who knowingly lie and others who are dumb enough to believe them. There will still be people who simply don't care about anybody but themselves. I try to change the minds of people like these, or sometimes just expose the flaws in their arguments for other people, but you're right. I don't spend a lot of time on them. Dishonest people, even when they realise they're wrong, won't acknowledge it.
I'm not saying that open discourse will create a utopia. I'm saying that its our best method for getting as close as human beings can manage.