It’s never been easier to offend people than it is right now. You might enjoy the wrong sport or wear your hair in the wrong style, you might assume the wrong gender or discuss your sexuality in the wrong way, heck, you might just feel the wrong degree of nostalgia about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I’m not going to get into the vagaries of feeling offended here. Everybody has the right to feel offended, after all. The question is, if somebody doesn’t behave or think in precisely the way we want, do we have a right to hold it against them?
My brother used to be married to a black Brazilian woman. When asked "is it difficult being in a mixed marriage?" He would say "any relationship between a man and a woman is a mixed marriage." When I told this story to a gay friend of mine, she said "any relationship between two people is a mixed marriage". To which I would add that it's often difficult to harmonize the various aspects of yourself. I still haven't figured out whether I am a philosopher or a musician.
"any relationship between two people is a mixed marriage"
Ain't that the truth! On a simpler note, I just wish we, as a species, could move past this idea that it's harder for two people with different coloured skin to relate to each other than it is for two people with the same coloured skin. With all the differences and similarities we all have, skin colour is such a strange one to single out in this way.
Excellent piece. I had the same arguments with them back at the time when it happened. It boggles the mind how people can just suddenly go off the deep end whenever something violent happens. It’s like they intentionally eschew all powers of reason to make the most conflicted, illogical points possible. Whether it’s Israel-Palestine, Atlanta shootings, Kyle Rittenhouse, or any other violent act that makes news headlines, it’s guaranteed to be a couple of weeks where I sign off social media to avoid the annoyances and I’m guarantee to argue with people I usually agree with.
I'll never forget a conversation you and I were having with another guy where we were trying to explain that the fact that the shooting involved a white man and Asian women didn't make it racist. He seemed like a perfectly reasonable guy, but he just couldn't accept that the possibility of racism wasn't the same as a guarantee of racism. He could understand all the points in isolation, but just couldn't put them together. It was surreal!😅
Haha, "mascara wands" is a hyper online, super-niche, lesbian jargon for a penis. It's a testament to how deep I am in these rabbit holes that I know the term. But yes, basically it's a way of saying that she doesn't like penises. No matter how feminine the person wielding it might be.
There is much that could be said here, I'll try to not say too much. With fifty+ years with an Asian woman it should be unsurprising that I am attracted to Asian women. She streams seesantv.com which means that there are always gorgeous women on her TV. Some of them are men ;0) Fetish? Nope. As much trouble as "race" is, I think it would be tragic to have the variety vanish. I have no doubt that if miss right had been black, white, native American or Latina all those years ago, they would be my comfort group.
I have no theory about it, but my male friends who are white and have interracial marriages have Asian wives. My male friends who are black and have interracial marriages have white wives. As best as I can tell, it's who they love. It is also my limited exposure. Perhaps an uncommonly large group, but two digits, not even three so hardly a valid statistic (the trouble with lived experience). The Asian women are from Asia so there is also culture, and it sure as hell isn't subservience. Do I notice the difference? Sure, but women are women. Is subculture a thing for the black men? I have no clue. I've never been inclined to ask even my closest friends about such things. Not even my best friend. My assumption is that they love them. Fetishism is a sad assumption.
Are there fetishists? I think it is a statistical probability. Are preferences fetishes? That's certainly not a given. Is sexualization of Asian women greater than for other "different" groups? I don't even know if that is true although it is a thing. Charmaine said that she could respect the man's preference as he explained it to her. Should there be a need to explain ourselves in such matters?
There does seem to be some weird dynamics. Black women, according to research, some of which is conducted by dating apps, find that they are lowest on anyone's desirability index. I do see far more black men with white wives/partners than the reverse, and I'll bet your interracial marriage friends aren't much attracted to black women. Not accusing them of racism, but suggesting there *could* be a level of fetishism there. I found the black guy ---> white woman fetish stronger in the US than in Canada, but I was over forty when I moved here and also we're so diverse it's easier to meet people of other cultures & races you might find yourself attracted to. What I did find when I moved here is how fetishized I was by Indian & Middle Eastern guys. Like they almost *exclusively* were interested in me. A friend has told me a white partner is a sign you've 'made it' in Canada, but he's a conservative so I'm not sure how true that is....his judgement is up for debate apart from being a conservative.
I do know black guys are often fetishized by both straight women and gay men for the myth of the BBD - the Big Black Dick. Explored it a little in a Medium article back I wrote on the racist African penis enlargement spam I was getting. It was racist, misogynist, offensive, and well--funny as fuck :)
"Black women, according to research, some of which is conducted by dating apps, find that they are lowest on anyone's desirability index"
Yeah, I saw this research too. I think black women, generally speaking of course, have the hardest time conforming to western beauty standards. Most obviously with regards hair. There's an enormous subculture around black women's hair and the struggles and shame around conforming. Weaves, relaxant, wigs, it's a whole complicated thing.
The other side of this is apparently Indian men, who find themselves at the bottom of women's desirability index. Here, I think the issue is mostly cultural.
What we find attractive is obviously going to be a function what we're exposed to. I've dated all the "races" and various ethnicities within them, but white women are the majority because I've always lived in white majority countries. I've also been straight up propositioned by women in part because I'm black, and frankly, if they were attractive and seemed nice, I was happy to oblige. I don[t see it any differently to the women who I know would be less attracted to me if I weren't tall or athletic.
I know there's a 'hair thing' with black women and I just don't get it. I don't know why they're considered less attractive because of this, and black women do some pretty amazing things with their hair that I don't think white women can do nearly as well. I evaluate people for beauty like anyone else, but I try to stick with *their* 'typical' attributes. So, kinky hair is fine, Nefertiti-hairstyles are awesome, and yay for Asian women and their super-straight hair that never frizzes up in damp weather (bitches!!!) :)
I think many Indian men are quite attractive, but as one who was heavily targeted by them when I moved here, I can tell you it's cultural, not attractiveness. The Bollywood actor John Abraham? I fell in love with him and his big brown eyes when I saw "Kabul Express". He turned to the camera and I was like, "I'll marry him," and my Indian (male) friend I was with said, "Yeah, you and half a billion Indian women!"
Unfortunately, they tend to be very unsocialized and, from what I've read, think white women are like the ones they see in porno videos.
My dating history has been very spotty for the last twenty-odd years so I can't offer too much commentary on that, except to say I've gone out with a bunch of the races in Toronto, including white, and almost none of them can get past the first coffee date.
My round hair follicle wife never seemed to understand our daughter's curly hair that tangles. Oow, owe, owe when she brushed their hair. The thing that they really wish they got from my wife is that she has never had reason to shave her legs.
In their teens they liked being able to choose their look without chemicals. One day they might iron it straight for their Asian look. Another day they'd braid it while wet before bed and have Sherley Temple curls the next day. In the summer they brown up and daughter number two looks like she could be from India.
When we were younger my wife permed her hair up tight. She looked like a black woman. We lived in Georgia where there was no benefit to being black, but she had the privilege of beauty so she experienced no negative issues. I liked it.
Maybe I'm not typical but I see nothing undesirable about black women. But I've never used a dating app. Do you think it is looks or a perception of personality?
I don't know. Maybe both. The guy I dated a bit a few years ago seemed to have a particular blonde white woman fetish, but I seriously wonder if he got it from porn, which I know he watched, we talked about it.
I don't really have a racial fetish myself, I only ever was concerned with culture and religion, i.e., does either make you misogynist? Didn't care about religion as long as a) There was no misogyniy and b) I wasn't expected to join the club.
We need to start calling out the 'lived experience' as being among the lowest-quality data. All it points to is someone's interpretation of something. 'Transphobia' is a prime example: Countless TRAs claiming 'transphobia' is widespread when in fact it's resistance and challenge to their crazy claims and outrageous behaviour. I mean, if I insisted I was a cat and people didn't go along with me, I could accuse the world of 'transfelinophobia'.
How do we know a white guy shooting up an Asian spa was racist? How do we know he fetishized Asian women? Maybe those were the spas closest to him (or farthest). Maybe he doesn't much care who sucks his dick. Unless he's expressed himself in some way to prefer having sex with Asian women, it's sheer speculation, and irresponsible of the media to play it up as though it's racist, when no one can look into his head and see what he fancies.
Charlaine's 'lived experience' appears fairly coloured by ideology. She assumes 'countless', 'millions' of Asians may be having this same experience. Considering how many Asians there are in the world she's probably right, but what about the Asians who *don't* have these experiences, who *don't* interpret everything as racist? Also, the rest of our 'lived experiences' must count for the same too. POC can't know what it's like to be white, women can't know what it's like to be male. White people and male people's opinions and perceptions still matter and can't be completely discounted.
BTW I *did* have a boyfriend (white) who fetishized blondes, and it did seem to be a racist thing. He told me early on he liked blondes, but later he expressed some fairly racist reasons why (he prefers white women too), and I would DEFINITELY call him a fetishist in a lot of ways. We didn't last long after that, although the relationship was already doomed due to him wanting to move back to the US, and, go figger, southern Cal. Gee I wonder why.
"Among the increasingly bizarre and wholly unrealistic social pressures we face is the pressure to pretend that we’ve transcended our instincts."
Totally. I blame the trans humanist agenda being pushed by the likes of Martine Rothblatt. He didn't like the body he was born into, so we're all supposed to dissociate from our embodied reality? Scary stuff.
My brother used to be married to a black Brazilian woman. When asked "is it difficult being in a mixed marriage?" He would say "any relationship between a man and a woman is a mixed marriage." When I told this story to a gay friend of mine, she said "any relationship between two people is a mixed marriage". To which I would add that it's often difficult to harmonize the various aspects of yourself. I still haven't figured out whether I am a philosopher or a musician.
"any relationship between two people is a mixed marriage"
Ain't that the truth! On a simpler note, I just wish we, as a species, could move past this idea that it's harder for two people with different coloured skin to relate to each other than it is for two people with the same coloured skin. With all the differences and similarities we all have, skin colour is such a strange one to single out in this way.
Excellent piece. I had the same arguments with them back at the time when it happened. It boggles the mind how people can just suddenly go off the deep end whenever something violent happens. It’s like they intentionally eschew all powers of reason to make the most conflicted, illogical points possible. Whether it’s Israel-Palestine, Atlanta shootings, Kyle Rittenhouse, or any other violent act that makes news headlines, it’s guaranteed to be a couple of weeks where I sign off social media to avoid the annoyances and I’m guarantee to argue with people I usually agree with.
I'll never forget a conversation you and I were having with another guy where we were trying to explain that the fact that the shooting involved a white man and Asian women didn't make it racist. He seemed like a perfectly reasonable guy, but he just couldn't accept that the possibility of racism wasn't the same as a guarantee of racism. He could understand all the points in isolation, but just couldn't put them together. It was surreal!😅
Slightly off-topic, but what's all this about mascara wands? I tried, and failed, to make some sense of that.
Haha, "mascara wands" is a hyper online, super-niche, lesbian jargon for a penis. It's a testament to how deep I am in these rabbit holes that I know the term. But yes, basically it's a way of saying that she doesn't like penises. No matter how feminine the person wielding it might be.
Those darn lesbians with their penis-hating misogyny! LOL what a world.
Haha, it’s the return of the good old “they just haven’t tried the right penis” homophobia
There is much that could be said here, I'll try to not say too much. With fifty+ years with an Asian woman it should be unsurprising that I am attracted to Asian women. She streams seesantv.com which means that there are always gorgeous women on her TV. Some of them are men ;0) Fetish? Nope. As much trouble as "race" is, I think it would be tragic to have the variety vanish. I have no doubt that if miss right had been black, white, native American or Latina all those years ago, they would be my comfort group.
I have no theory about it, but my male friends who are white and have interracial marriages have Asian wives. My male friends who are black and have interracial marriages have white wives. As best as I can tell, it's who they love. It is also my limited exposure. Perhaps an uncommonly large group, but two digits, not even three so hardly a valid statistic (the trouble with lived experience). The Asian women are from Asia so there is also culture, and it sure as hell isn't subservience. Do I notice the difference? Sure, but women are women. Is subculture a thing for the black men? I have no clue. I've never been inclined to ask even my closest friends about such things. Not even my best friend. My assumption is that they love them. Fetishism is a sad assumption.
Are there fetishists? I think it is a statistical probability. Are preferences fetishes? That's certainly not a given. Is sexualization of Asian women greater than for other "different" groups? I don't even know if that is true although it is a thing. Charmaine said that she could respect the man's preference as he explained it to her. Should there be a need to explain ourselves in such matters?
There does seem to be some weird dynamics. Black women, according to research, some of which is conducted by dating apps, find that they are lowest on anyone's desirability index. I do see far more black men with white wives/partners than the reverse, and I'll bet your interracial marriage friends aren't much attracted to black women. Not accusing them of racism, but suggesting there *could* be a level of fetishism there. I found the black guy ---> white woman fetish stronger in the US than in Canada, but I was over forty when I moved here and also we're so diverse it's easier to meet people of other cultures & races you might find yourself attracted to. What I did find when I moved here is how fetishized I was by Indian & Middle Eastern guys. Like they almost *exclusively* were interested in me. A friend has told me a white partner is a sign you've 'made it' in Canada, but he's a conservative so I'm not sure how true that is....his judgement is up for debate apart from being a conservative.
I do know black guys are often fetishized by both straight women and gay men for the myth of the BBD - the Big Black Dick. Explored it a little in a Medium article back I wrote on the racist African penis enlargement spam I was getting. It was racist, misogynist, offensive, and well--funny as fuck :)
"Black women, according to research, some of which is conducted by dating apps, find that they are lowest on anyone's desirability index"
Yeah, I saw this research too. I think black women, generally speaking of course, have the hardest time conforming to western beauty standards. Most obviously with regards hair. There's an enormous subculture around black women's hair and the struggles and shame around conforming. Weaves, relaxant, wigs, it's a whole complicated thing.
The other side of this is apparently Indian men, who find themselves at the bottom of women's desirability index. Here, I think the issue is mostly cultural.
What we find attractive is obviously going to be a function what we're exposed to. I've dated all the "races" and various ethnicities within them, but white women are the majority because I've always lived in white majority countries. I've also been straight up propositioned by women in part because I'm black, and frankly, if they were attractive and seemed nice, I was happy to oblige. I don[t see it any differently to the women who I know would be less attracted to me if I weren't tall or athletic.
I know there's a 'hair thing' with black women and I just don't get it. I don't know why they're considered less attractive because of this, and black women do some pretty amazing things with their hair that I don't think white women can do nearly as well. I evaluate people for beauty like anyone else, but I try to stick with *their* 'typical' attributes. So, kinky hair is fine, Nefertiti-hairstyles are awesome, and yay for Asian women and their super-straight hair that never frizzes up in damp weather (bitches!!!) :)
I think many Indian men are quite attractive, but as one who was heavily targeted by them when I moved here, I can tell you it's cultural, not attractiveness. The Bollywood actor John Abraham? I fell in love with him and his big brown eyes when I saw "Kabul Express". He turned to the camera and I was like, "I'll marry him," and my Indian (male) friend I was with said, "Yeah, you and half a billion Indian women!"
Unfortunately, they tend to be very unsocialized and, from what I've read, think white women are like the ones they see in porno videos.
My dating history has been very spotty for the last twenty-odd years so I can't offer too much commentary on that, except to say I've gone out with a bunch of the races in Toronto, including white, and almost none of them can get past the first coffee date.
And granted, I'm more jaded than the Taj Mahal :)
"𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘦𝘳-𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘪𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘯𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘧𝘳𝘪𝘻𝘻𝘦𝘴 𝘶𝘱 𝘪𝘯 𝘥𝘢𝘮𝘱 𝘸𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘦r"
My round hair follicle wife never seemed to understand our daughter's curly hair that tangles. Oow, owe, owe when she brushed their hair. The thing that they really wish they got from my wife is that she has never had reason to shave her legs.
In their teens they liked being able to choose their look without chemicals. One day they might iron it straight for their Asian look. Another day they'd braid it while wet before bed and have Sherley Temple curls the next day. In the summer they brown up and daughter number two looks like she could be from India.
When we were younger my wife permed her hair up tight. She looked like a black woman. We lived in Georgia where there was no benefit to being black, but she had the privilege of beauty so she experienced no negative issues. I liked it.
Maybe I'm not typical but I see nothing undesirable about black women. But I've never used a dating app. Do you think it is looks or a perception of personality?
I don't know. Maybe both. The guy I dated a bit a few years ago seemed to have a particular blonde white woman fetish, but I seriously wonder if he got it from porn, which I know he watched, we talked about it.
I don't really have a racial fetish myself, I only ever was concerned with culture and religion, i.e., does either make you misogynist? Didn't care about religion as long as a) There was no misogyniy and b) I wasn't expected to join the club.
We need to start calling out the 'lived experience' as being among the lowest-quality data. All it points to is someone's interpretation of something. 'Transphobia' is a prime example: Countless TRAs claiming 'transphobia' is widespread when in fact it's resistance and challenge to their crazy claims and outrageous behaviour. I mean, if I insisted I was a cat and people didn't go along with me, I could accuse the world of 'transfelinophobia'.
How do we know a white guy shooting up an Asian spa was racist? How do we know he fetishized Asian women? Maybe those were the spas closest to him (or farthest). Maybe he doesn't much care who sucks his dick. Unless he's expressed himself in some way to prefer having sex with Asian women, it's sheer speculation, and irresponsible of the media to play it up as though it's racist, when no one can look into his head and see what he fancies.
Charlaine's 'lived experience' appears fairly coloured by ideology. She assumes 'countless', 'millions' of Asians may be having this same experience. Considering how many Asians there are in the world she's probably right, but what about the Asians who *don't* have these experiences, who *don't* interpret everything as racist? Also, the rest of our 'lived experiences' must count for the same too. POC can't know what it's like to be white, women can't know what it's like to be male. White people and male people's opinions and perceptions still matter and can't be completely discounted.
BTW I *did* have a boyfriend (white) who fetishized blondes, and it did seem to be a racist thing. He told me early on he liked blondes, but later he expressed some fairly racist reasons why (he prefers white women too), and I would DEFINITELY call him a fetishist in a lot of ways. We didn't last long after that, although the relationship was already doomed due to him wanting to move back to the US, and, go figger, southern Cal. Gee I wonder why.
"Among the increasingly bizarre and wholly unrealistic social pressures we face is the pressure to pretend that we’ve transcended our instincts."
Totally. I blame the trans humanist agenda being pushed by the likes of Martine Rothblatt. He didn't like the body he was born into, so we're all supposed to dissociate from our embodied reality? Scary stuff.