1. You ask if I count myself as part of the LGBTQIA+ community. That's not easy to answer. Does factually being Lesbian, or Gay, or any other category make one an automatic "member" or is there some expectation of subcultural enrollment? As to the other, I am not a political "activist" in that area at present (tho I have…
1. You ask if I count myself as part of the LGBTQIA+ community. That's not easy to answer. Does factually being Lesbian, or Gay, or any other category make one an automatic "member" or is there some expectation of subcultural enrollment? As to the other, I am not a political "activist" in that area at present (tho I have worked against anti-gay referenda in the past); my more recent posts within such a space on discussion sites have been more like offering requested advice and commentary to some young folks seeking to find their path - more offering human to human help, than seeking political change. And also being an observer of trends and ways of thinking/framing common in such communities.
2. I suspect that consciously pre-planning an identification as a way to gain outrage cred is probably not common, but many of our motivations are not conscious. For example, I suspect that very few young folks fitting the ROGD pattern are attempting conscious deception, but their psyches can still have observed the status benefits that friends get when so identifying, and that may influence one's self-interpretation. One in that situation might "discover" that they are also trans, and gratefully receive the resulting attention, in all sincerity - at the conscious level. (This human dynamic of unconscious reward seeking is far broader than trans issues of course!). Since we don't like to think of ourselves as deceitful or false, cognitive dissonance would tend to work against *conscious* pre-planning.
And - even if a given motivation or payoff was not present in an initial move towards an identification, it could become more relevant later in sustaining or expanding it. In a different but related sphere, I don't think that most neo-progressives are seeking to have the moral high ground initially - typically they are just adopting a worldview which they see as more caring and empathetic; but nevertheless after getting in, they may be seduced by the payoffs of being able to look down at opponents from an unquestionably morally superior viewpoint. (Speaking of general trends, not about everybody of course).
3. I find your nuanced approach to discerning courtesy versus entitlement to be well considered. And I agree about the frailty of desperately needing external validation being a weakness rather than a strength.
(To be clear: We all have weaknesses so my point is not to disparage anybody who has a weakness (I well know that I have my own weaknesses); rather it's to question whether those weaknesses should be valorized and encouraged, versus aspiring to be more robust when we can. I am not hasty to judge most human weaknesses, but I do question treating them as more desirable than empowerment.)
I am reminded of the (not unchallenged) Duluth model of domestic abuse. My summary of the relevant thought: person 1 (more often but not always male) may not have the skills to self sooth or sustain their self esteem, and may become dependent on their partner, person 2 for that. They then wind up resenting the partner's 'control' over their own internal landscape, and needing to control that partner, in order to control their fix. In the domestic context, this is thought to sometimes lead to the point of emotionally or physically abusing the partner (person 2).
Similarly, in the context under consideration, if somebody excessively needs external validation of their identity, they may find themselves needing to control that fix too. That could explain some of the strong need for power-over, which is often framed as a search for "safety" but in my view clearly goes beyond obtaining safety into seeking unwarranted control over the behavior, speech and even thought processes of others. In this context, it rarely leads to physical abuse of cis friends or family, but some of the other dynamics may apply. (This is a fresh hypothesis for me, not yet integrated).
I'm glad to share with you the incremental puzzling out of pieces of this complicated puzzle - and the questions you are asking yourself are good ones.
Wow! honored at the amount of thought here. Not that this was the goal, but I think we have reached consensus in our thinking. Two things to highlight:
> I find your nuanced approach to discerning courtesy versus entitlement to be well considered.
thanks, clarity on this really evolved in this conversation. And my initial "eye-roll" reaction to all of this identity politics did not include this courtesy aspect for some number of years.
> ... rather it's to question whether those weaknesses should be valorized and encouraged
Enthusiastic agreement from me here. This valorizing weakness, only begets more weakness, and CREATES insult where there was none. This is the key thought that the left is getting very wrong. After many words I think we have pinned it down well!
In rough order:
1. You ask if I count myself as part of the LGBTQIA+ community. That's not easy to answer. Does factually being Lesbian, or Gay, or any other category make one an automatic "member" or is there some expectation of subcultural enrollment? As to the other, I am not a political "activist" in that area at present (tho I have worked against anti-gay referenda in the past); my more recent posts within such a space on discussion sites have been more like offering requested advice and commentary to some young folks seeking to find their path - more offering human to human help, than seeking political change. And also being an observer of trends and ways of thinking/framing common in such communities.
2. I suspect that consciously pre-planning an identification as a way to gain outrage cred is probably not common, but many of our motivations are not conscious. For example, I suspect that very few young folks fitting the ROGD pattern are attempting conscious deception, but their psyches can still have observed the status benefits that friends get when so identifying, and that may influence one's self-interpretation. One in that situation might "discover" that they are also trans, and gratefully receive the resulting attention, in all sincerity - at the conscious level. (This human dynamic of unconscious reward seeking is far broader than trans issues of course!). Since we don't like to think of ourselves as deceitful or false, cognitive dissonance would tend to work against *conscious* pre-planning.
And - even if a given motivation or payoff was not present in an initial move towards an identification, it could become more relevant later in sustaining or expanding it. In a different but related sphere, I don't think that most neo-progressives are seeking to have the moral high ground initially - typically they are just adopting a worldview which they see as more caring and empathetic; but nevertheless after getting in, they may be seduced by the payoffs of being able to look down at opponents from an unquestionably morally superior viewpoint. (Speaking of general trends, not about everybody of course).
3. I find your nuanced approach to discerning courtesy versus entitlement to be well considered. And I agree about the frailty of desperately needing external validation being a weakness rather than a strength.
(To be clear: We all have weaknesses so my point is not to disparage anybody who has a weakness (I well know that I have my own weaknesses); rather it's to question whether those weaknesses should be valorized and encouraged, versus aspiring to be more robust when we can. I am not hasty to judge most human weaknesses, but I do question treating them as more desirable than empowerment.)
I am reminded of the (not unchallenged) Duluth model of domestic abuse. My summary of the relevant thought: person 1 (more often but not always male) may not have the skills to self sooth or sustain their self esteem, and may become dependent on their partner, person 2 for that. They then wind up resenting the partner's 'control' over their own internal landscape, and needing to control that partner, in order to control their fix. In the domestic context, this is thought to sometimes lead to the point of emotionally or physically abusing the partner (person 2).
Similarly, in the context under consideration, if somebody excessively needs external validation of their identity, they may find themselves needing to control that fix too. That could explain some of the strong need for power-over, which is often framed as a search for "safety" but in my view clearly goes beyond obtaining safety into seeking unwarranted control over the behavior, speech and even thought processes of others. In this context, it rarely leads to physical abuse of cis friends or family, but some of the other dynamics may apply. (This is a fresh hypothesis for me, not yet integrated).
I'm glad to share with you the incremental puzzling out of pieces of this complicated puzzle - and the questions you are asking yourself are good ones.
Cheers
Wow! honored at the amount of thought here. Not that this was the goal, but I think we have reached consensus in our thinking. Two things to highlight:
> I find your nuanced approach to discerning courtesy versus entitlement to be well considered.
thanks, clarity on this really evolved in this conversation. And my initial "eye-roll" reaction to all of this identity politics did not include this courtesy aspect for some number of years.
> ... rather it's to question whether those weaknesses should be valorized and encouraged
Enthusiastic agreement from me here. This valorizing weakness, only begets more weakness, and CREATES insult where there was none. This is the key thought that the left is getting very wrong. After many words I think we have pinned it down well!
I enjoyed the nuanced discussion!