As you might expect, I’m a big fan of words. I love reading them, I love crafting them, I love their shades of meaning and tone. But their true value is more utilitarian; words are our primary means of connection to a shared reality. They’re the means by which our knowledge is preserved. They’re the tools that govern our ability to think and communicate clearly.
It hews a little close to the bone. Women have been chattel, owned, controlled, for a very long time. The stronger gender has raped with abandon in celebration of war victory.
Just how do you expect a female to react to the encouragement - nay, forceful entry - into spaces claimed through long battles and endless arguments….with joyful acceptance? Please.
While I admit that at times the feminist movement has been brutally unfair to men, I do not believe that this excuses men in women’s prisons, men in women’s bathrooms, men in women’s sports competitions. Too hard fought, too damn fraught.
"While I admit that at times the feminist movement has been brutally unfair to men, I do not believe that this excuses men in women’s prisons, men in women’s bathrooms, men in women’s sports competitions."
100%. There's no denying that some feminists are unfair to men. But also no denying that society has been far more unfair to women. Female only spaces are just one area in which women have fought to redress some of the imbalance in society. I don't believe for a second that <1% of the population should get to unilaterally overturn that.
I ardently support trans women's right to safe spaces of their own. I fully support their inclusion in spaces where women are happy to include them (which, for the record, I think is most spaces). But spaces where women expect and deserve privacy and safety? No. Sorry. Let's find a different solution. Let's stop pretending there's no other option but to override the wishes of women.
The trans movement has become a haven for traditional entitled misogynists who've figured out a way to claim unchallenged victimhood and more importantly, to convince at least some 'feminists' to accept unquestioned male authority.
"to convince at least some 'feminists' to accept unquestioned male authority."
I feel my head gently exploding when I talk to some women about this stuff. Like seriously! How am I more concerned about this than you?! I spoke to a woman who claimed to be a rape survivor who said it was basically tough luck if a woman doesn't want to share a changing room or a crisis centre with somebody with a penis.
I mean, it's the internet, so it could have been a 14-year-old boy formal I know, but if to, what the actual f*ck?! As we said recently, the power this ideology wields over people's minds is bizarre.
Remember the 1979 movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers? That's how I think of these people....Pod People whose brains have been taken over by aliens or something. Lie WTF??? How can some 'feminists' be SO brain-dead?
I will NEVER understand the Regressive Left, never in a million years.
To be a member of the Conservative Club you need to say publicly that the election was stolen from Trump. No evidence just means the conspiracy was broad.
To be an SJW you have to agree that any man who declares he's now a woman IS a women, absurdity notwithstanding.
Stage One: some people are intrinsically inferior to others and it's perfectly OK to exploit the inferior
Stage Two: there are no differences. Race and gender are oppressive social constructs. "Woke"
Stage Three: there are differences, they are real, but they don't represent inferiority and superiority
The big problem with stage two is that it's false. And it therefore has potential to collapse under the weight of its own falsehood back to Stage One. Women are not men, but trans women are. There is an element of continuum to race but there are distinct races, they are different, and not just culturally.
Vietnamese people coming into my room wrinkle their noses at the catbox smell yet I can stand right over it and not smell a thing. This is consistent.
I'd slip in a Stage 2.5, which is where we seem to be right now:
The differences between people based on their race, gender, etc form unbreachable chasms that define the people in question.
Black people think black thoughts, women/men think woman/man thoughts, (hence if you think you're a man/woman you are a man/woman) and any attempt to honestly discuss these issues is racism, transphobia, etc.
I have a hard time distinguishing your 2.5 from my 2.
But thanks again for creating a forum where we can discuss these things without being called various kinds of bigots. If I post even watered-down repeats of what I've posted here on social media I'll at least be suspended; on Medium I will be banned (again). The repression of open discussion by what so many are (completely erroneously) calling "the left" is even more disheartening than the cretins who invaded the Capitol.
"I have a hard time distinguishing your 2.5 from my 2."
Hmm, maybe I misunderstood. You mentioned the belief for some corners that there *are* no differences and everything is socially constructed. I'm pointing to a belief that there not only *are* differences, but that they're fundamental. And that it's impossible to bridge the gap between them with empathy or our common humanity.
And you're welcome, though I should be thanking you. It's the input from you all that makes this place such a haven of honest, meaningful conversation. And guess what?! Nobody has been "traumatised" by encountering a difference of opinion or a fact that they didn't know before! Who'da thunk?!
"Vietnamese people coming into my room wrinkle their noses at the catbox smell yet I can stand right over it and not smell a thing. This is consistent."
I can confirm. My Thai wife can smell things that I cannot (no, not covid). When we first wed, her food handling was shocking. She grew up poor without refrigeration. In our kitchen: Me, "Is this OK?" She sniffs, either "Yes, you can eat it" or "No, throw that away." Long before it smells so bad that I don't need to ask.
Refrigerators are for drinks. you'll never see fish in a fridge. Because it's with fish that the preoccupation with freshness reaches its peak.
In preparing a big meal, it's only after everything else is steaming and ready to serve that the fish is killed and cooked; it lives in a pan of water up to the very last second.
Anyway. bigot (stage one above) would say, "see? they're more like dogs."
A Woke would scream "racism! There are no races! There are not differences!"
I say that there has been selection pressure because of the primacy of freshness (the word is everywhere here, tươi). It's neither inferiority nor superiority, it just is.
This leads to another third rail issue. Nature vs. nurture of race vs. culture. I can claim no expertise, but I think there is some ratio with variability among individuals. Related of course to the innate vs. culture issues of masculine and feminine traits. Not completely binary but unfortunately not well enough understood.
I am well-traveled throughout Asia, and I have noticed things "Asian" in countries with cultural differences from each other which are also observable. I have no explanation or theory.
I know what you're talking about but that isn't it. Dogs already have 10⁵ the olfactory sensitivity that humans do but when it comes to the odors that signify another dog's health (why they sniff butts) it's ten time more sensitive.
I worked at Microsoft before they introduced American hygiene expectations to new employee orientation for workers from a certain country heavily represented in the workforce, You could walk down an empty hallway and the BO would make your eyes water.
I know four (!) people who lived in that country and all four left for the same reason: the smell of sewage everywhere. A sensitive nose ,must be a curse there.
But no. Asians have a sharper olfactory sense across the board.
Per usual, agree with Jen and Dave. That's why I'm an honorary TERF. And I never read Foucault or Derrida. But I think it was them all who understood that the language You use determines the reality You see. And, yeah, "Disinformation" would be better looked into by someone who wasn't partisan, if there were such a beast. 1984 indeed.
I think that is the objective of the purposeful corruption of language. America now has Minitrue (Disinformation Governance Board) straight out of Orwell's "1984" dystopia.
It's happening everywhere. In software development it's almost crippling; it ten people use the word "refactor" it means at least six different things.
One by one words are declared anathema; transvestite, transsexual, transgender.
From the Dialogs of Plato, in Euthyphro the subject is hosiotes (piety). Plato presses Euthyphro to define piety. Euthyphro ultimately retreated without providing an answer. This type of impasse is all too common. How can you discuss or debate something undefined? How can discussion about women's or transexual rights be discussed with someone who cannot define what a woman is? There will just be a bunch of talking passed each other at best and insult laden BS at worst.
I actually read that in college years ago - and still have the text. Thank you for mentioning this, I’ve already dusted off dear Plato for a little reunion.
The root of the problem is that human reasoning is not in the first instance aimed at truth; it’s a social competence aimed at solidifying our reputation in our group. The corollary to that is that we are evolutionarily primed to be good at recognizing biases in others and bad at acknowledging our own.
This leads to this phenomenon where people believe they are polarized around questions of what is True, when really they are largely engaging in ingroup-outgroup coalitional behaviors.
Of course, the ultimate answer to this is empiricism. Which is why the current academic fad of radical scientific relativism is so toxic.
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the windows of my apartment. I live on the twenty-first floor."
David Stove (Anything Goes: The Cult of Scientific Irrationalism) points out that these cultural relativists always leave themselves an out; basically they don’t really believe what they write. They believe in having air conditioning in their house that performs according to the ideal gas law, and then go to work and write that science is just a cultural artifact of the west, no better than any other culture.
It hews a little close to the bone. Women have been chattel, owned, controlled, for a very long time. The stronger gender has raped with abandon in celebration of war victory.
Just how do you expect a female to react to the encouragement - nay, forceful entry - into spaces claimed through long battles and endless arguments….with joyful acceptance? Please.
While I admit that at times the feminist movement has been brutally unfair to men, I do not believe that this excuses men in women’s prisons, men in women’s bathrooms, men in women’s sports competitions. Too hard fought, too damn fraught.
"While I admit that at times the feminist movement has been brutally unfair to men, I do not believe that this excuses men in women’s prisons, men in women’s bathrooms, men in women’s sports competitions."
100%. There's no denying that some feminists are unfair to men. But also no denying that society has been far more unfair to women. Female only spaces are just one area in which women have fought to redress some of the imbalance in society. I don't believe for a second that <1% of the population should get to unilaterally overturn that.
I ardently support trans women's right to safe spaces of their own. I fully support their inclusion in spaces where women are happy to include them (which, for the record, I think is most spaces). But spaces where women expect and deserve privacy and safety? No. Sorry. Let's find a different solution. Let's stop pretending there's no other option but to override the wishes of women.
My tiny baby brother
Has never read a book;
Knows one sex from the other
All he has to do is look.
—Irving Berlin, “Doin’ What Comes Natcherly” from “Annie Get Your Gun”
The trans movement has become a haven for traditional entitled misogynists who've figured out a way to claim unchallenged victimhood and more importantly, to convince at least some 'feminists' to accept unquestioned male authority.
Like the 'good little girls' of yore.
"to convince at least some 'feminists' to accept unquestioned male authority."
I feel my head gently exploding when I talk to some women about this stuff. Like seriously! How am I more concerned about this than you?! I spoke to a woman who claimed to be a rape survivor who said it was basically tough luck if a woman doesn't want to share a changing room or a crisis centre with somebody with a penis.
I mean, it's the internet, so it could have been a 14-year-old boy formal I know, but if to, what the actual f*ck?! As we said recently, the power this ideology wields over people's minds is bizarre.
Remember the 1979 movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers? That's how I think of these people....Pod People whose brains have been taken over by aliens or something. Lie WTF??? How can some 'feminists' be SO brain-dead?
I will NEVER understand the Regressive Left, never in a million years.
To be a member of the Conservative Club you need to say publicly that the election was stolen from Trump. No evidence just means the conspiracy was broad.
To be an SJW you have to agree that any man who declares he's now a woman IS a women, absurdity notwithstanding.
We are in an epistemological crisis.
We're only in stage one and two of bigotry
Stage One: some people are intrinsically inferior to others and it's perfectly OK to exploit the inferior
Stage Two: there are no differences. Race and gender are oppressive social constructs. "Woke"
Stage Three: there are differences, they are real, but they don't represent inferiority and superiority
The big problem with stage two is that it's false. And it therefore has potential to collapse under the weight of its own falsehood back to Stage One. Women are not men, but trans women are. There is an element of continuum to race but there are distinct races, they are different, and not just culturally.
Vietnamese people coming into my room wrinkle their noses at the catbox smell yet I can stand right over it and not smell a thing. This is consistent.
I'd slip in a Stage 2.5, which is where we seem to be right now:
The differences between people based on their race, gender, etc form unbreachable chasms that define the people in question.
Black people think black thoughts, women/men think woman/man thoughts, (hence if you think you're a man/woman you are a man/woman) and any attempt to honestly discuss these issues is racism, transphobia, etc.
I have a hard time distinguishing your 2.5 from my 2.
But thanks again for creating a forum where we can discuss these things without being called various kinds of bigots. If I post even watered-down repeats of what I've posted here on social media I'll at least be suspended; on Medium I will be banned (again). The repression of open discussion by what so many are (completely erroneously) calling "the left" is even more disheartening than the cretins who invaded the Capitol.
"I have a hard time distinguishing your 2.5 from my 2."
Hmm, maybe I misunderstood. You mentioned the belief for some corners that there *are* no differences and everything is socially constructed. I'm pointing to a belief that there not only *are* differences, but that they're fundamental. And that it's impossible to bridge the gap between them with empathy or our common humanity.
And you're welcome, though I should be thanking you. It's the input from you all that makes this place such a haven of honest, meaningful conversation. And guess what?! Nobody has been "traumatised" by encountering a difference of opinion or a fact that they didn't know before! Who'da thunk?!
"Vietnamese people coming into my room wrinkle their noses at the catbox smell yet I can stand right over it and not smell a thing. This is consistent."
What does this mean? I'm sorry- I don't get it.
That they have a sharper sense of smell.
That Asians, possibly selected by millennia of fetish around food freshness, have a better olfactory sense than Caucasians.
I can confirm. My Thai wife can smell things that I cannot (no, not covid). When we first wed, her food handling was shocking. She grew up poor without refrigeration. In our kitchen: Me, "Is this OK?" She sniffs, either "Yes, you can eat it" or "No, throw that away." Long before it smells so bad that I don't need to ask.
Refrigerators are for drinks. you'll never see fish in a fridge. Because it's with fish that the preoccupation with freshness reaches its peak.
In preparing a big meal, it's only after everything else is steaming and ready to serve that the fish is killed and cooked; it lives in a pan of water up to the very last second.
Anyway. bigot (stage one above) would say, "see? they're more like dogs."
A Woke would scream "racism! There are no races! There are not differences!"
I say that there has been selection pressure because of the primacy of freshness (the word is everywhere here, tươi). It's neither inferiority nor superiority, it just is.
I shrug.
Thank you for explaining that more.
This leads to another third rail issue. Nature vs. nurture of race vs. culture. I can claim no expertise, but I think there is some ratio with variability among individuals. Related of course to the innate vs. culture issues of masculine and feminine traits. Not completely binary but unfortunately not well enough understood.
I am well-traveled throughout Asia, and I have noticed things "Asian" in countries with cultural differences from each other which are also observable. I have no explanation or theory.
Wow - I’ve never heard about that!
I know what you're talking about but that isn't it. Dogs already have 10⁵ the olfactory sensitivity that humans do but when it comes to the odors that signify another dog's health (why they sniff butts) it's ten time more sensitive.
I worked at Microsoft before they introduced American hygiene expectations to new employee orientation for workers from a certain country heavily represented in the workforce, You could walk down an empty hallway and the BO would make your eyes water.
I know four (!) people who lived in that country and all four left for the same reason: the smell of sewage everywhere. A sensitive nose ,must be a curse there.
But no. Asians have a sharper olfactory sense across the board.
Couldn'a said it better, Steve.
Per usual, agree with Jen and Dave. That's why I'm an honorary TERF. And I never read Foucault or Derrida. But I think it was them all who understood that the language You use determines the reality You see. And, yeah, "Disinformation" would be better looked into by someone who wasn't partisan, if there were such a beast. 1984 indeed.
I think that is the objective of the purposeful corruption of language. America now has Minitrue (Disinformation Governance Board) straight out of Orwell's "1984" dystopia.
"America now has Minitrue (Disinformation Governance Board) straight out of Orwell's "1984" dystopia."
Yeah, this is absolutely terrifying. I need to do some heavy reading on what's going on there.
It's happening everywhere. In software development it's almost crippling; it ten people use the word "refactor" it means at least six different things.
One by one words are declared anathema; transvestite, transsexual, transgender.
Yet "queer" is OK?
From the Dialogs of Plato, in Euthyphro the subject is hosiotes (piety). Plato presses Euthyphro to define piety. Euthyphro ultimately retreated without providing an answer. This type of impasse is all too common. How can you discuss or debate something undefined? How can discussion about women's or transexual rights be discussed with someone who cannot define what a woman is? There will just be a bunch of talking passed each other at best and insult laden BS at worst.
"How can discussion about women's or transexual rights be discussed with someone who cannot define what a woman is? "
Absolutely. Especially with that oft repeated mantra; "trans women are women."
Me: Okay, so let's talk about what a woman is then. And let's not use the word woman in the definition.
TRA: Bigot!!! *blocks*
They don't say "bigot." They say "transphobe." It's one of their new words.
They're always making up new words.
Ha! True.
I actually read that in college years ago - and still have the text. Thank you for mentioning this, I’ve already dusted off dear Plato for a little reunion.
The root of the problem is that human reasoning is not in the first instance aimed at truth; it’s a social competence aimed at solidifying our reputation in our group. The corollary to that is that we are evolutionarily primed to be good at recognizing biases in others and bad at acknowledging our own.
This leads to this phenomenon where people believe they are polarized around questions of what is True, when really they are largely engaging in ingroup-outgroup coalitional behaviors.
Of course, the ultimate answer to this is empiricism. Which is why the current academic fad of radical scientific relativism is so toxic.
Sokal Hoax: glory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the windows of my apartment. I live on the twenty-first floor."
David Stove (Anything Goes: The Cult of Scientific Irrationalism) points out that these cultural relativists always leave themselves an out; basically they don’t really believe what they write. They believe in having air conditioning in their house that performs according to the ideal gas law, and then go to work and write that science is just a cultural artifact of the west, no better than any other culture.