"Again, this is why you can't treat all drugs as if they're the same. Concerns about puberty blockers aren't about edge cases. They're about solid data that says they're unnecessary in the majority of cases and make children far more likely to medically transition (with all the health consequences that entails). There aren't many drugs I…
"Again, this is why you can't treat all drugs as if they're the same. Concerns about puberty blockers aren't about edge cases. They're about solid data that says they're unnecessary in the majority of cases and make children far more likely to medically transition (with all the health consequences that entails). There aren't many drugs I can think of that affect people in this way. And therefore, they should be considered on their own merits."
I'm interested in seeing this data.
"But we didn't let expectant mothers just roll the dice, because their decision would affect their kid."
No certainly not if we have a reasonable alternative. But I don't think there is a one-to-one alternative to opiates and possibly puberty blockers, too, but admittedly, I haven't investigated that far. It's more your specialty than mine.
"Do we, perhaps, need *some* guardrails here?"
Sure, make people wait a month to get the gun and conduct background checks. Make people have to be 18 to drink alcohol or smoke weed. I'm in favor of all these things. But it doesn't make these things "bad" they just are.
"Sure, make people wait a month to get the gun and conduct background checks. Make people have to be 18 to drink alcohol or smoke weed. I'm in favor of all these things. But it doesn't make these things "bad" they just are."
Right, again, I'm not saying that puberty blockers are bad and certainly not that transition is bad. Puberty blockers have been used for years for precocious puberty with well documented pros and cons. Transition is life-changingly positive for many people with gender dysphoria.
The issue is, trans activism in its current form, is hellbent on removing pretty much all guardrails, whether for kids, or for dishonest men who claim to be women.
I'm constantly baffled why nobody asks why we weren't talking about these issues 20 years ago. Well, it's because men couldn't legally become women simply by saying so. It's because people weren't tying to obfuscate obvious realities about biological sex. It's because people who transitioned did so to ease their medically diagnosed dysphoria, not to be edgy men in dresses deconstructing gender or because they were "transmaxxing (https://www.reddit.com/r/transmaxxing/comments/16y6c66/should_i_transmaxx/)" or because they were mentally ill and had been told by fetishists online that transitioning would fix them.
As you say, people need to be 18 before they drink alcohol or smoke weed or get a tattoo. But potentially making yourself infertile or chopping off body parts shouldn't require the same care?
Sorry, just realised that I hadn't provided this. Here's a link to a pretty good round up of all the studies (complete with links to the original papers) demonstrating that when children are allowed to go through their natural puberty without medicalisation, most of them are no longer dysphoric but usually just gay adults.
The optimistic interpretation of this second set of data is that puberty blockers are incredibly carefully prescribed and all the kids taking them are genuinely trans and go on to medically transition.
But given the shifts in policy in the Scandinavian countries and France, as well as the shutdown of the Tavistock gender clinic in England following findings of widespread negligence, I think a more realistic interpretation is that puberty blockers aren't carefully prescribed at all, but act as a gateway or first step on a transition pathway that few step off. Angst about puberty is, after all, nothing new.
"Again, this is why you can't treat all drugs as if they're the same. Concerns about puberty blockers aren't about edge cases. They're about solid data that says they're unnecessary in the majority of cases and make children far more likely to medically transition (with all the health consequences that entails). There aren't many drugs I can think of that affect people in this way. And therefore, they should be considered on their own merits."
I'm interested in seeing this data.
"But we didn't let expectant mothers just roll the dice, because their decision would affect their kid."
No certainly not if we have a reasonable alternative. But I don't think there is a one-to-one alternative to opiates and possibly puberty blockers, too, but admittedly, I haven't investigated that far. It's more your specialty than mine.
"Do we, perhaps, need *some* guardrails here?"
Sure, make people wait a month to get the gun and conduct background checks. Make people have to be 18 to drink alcohol or smoke weed. I'm in favor of all these things. But it doesn't make these things "bad" they just are.
"Sure, make people wait a month to get the gun and conduct background checks. Make people have to be 18 to drink alcohol or smoke weed. I'm in favor of all these things. But it doesn't make these things "bad" they just are."
Right, again, I'm not saying that puberty blockers are bad and certainly not that transition is bad. Puberty blockers have been used for years for precocious puberty with well documented pros and cons. Transition is life-changingly positive for many people with gender dysphoria.
The issue is, trans activism in its current form, is hellbent on removing pretty much all guardrails, whether for kids, or for dishonest men who claim to be women.
I'm constantly baffled why nobody asks why we weren't talking about these issues 20 years ago. Well, it's because men couldn't legally become women simply by saying so. It's because people weren't tying to obfuscate obvious realities about biological sex. It's because people who transitioned did so to ease their medically diagnosed dysphoria, not to be edgy men in dresses deconstructing gender or because they were "transmaxxing (https://www.reddit.com/r/transmaxxing/comments/16y6c66/should_i_transmaxx/)" or because they were mentally ill and had been told by fetishists online that transitioning would fix them.
As you say, people need to be 18 before they drink alcohol or smoke weed or get a tattoo. But potentially making yourself infertile or chopping off body parts shouldn't require the same care?
"I'm interested in seeing this data."
Sorry, just realised that I hadn't provided this. Here's a link to a pretty good round up of all the studies (complete with links to the original papers) demonstrating that when children are allowed to go through their natural puberty without medicalisation, most of them are no longer dysphoric but usually just gay adults.
https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/
But when children ARE medicalised, almost all of them go on to transition.
https://segm.org/early-social-gender-transition-persistence
The optimistic interpretation of this second set of data is that puberty blockers are incredibly carefully prescribed and all the kids taking them are genuinely trans and go on to medically transition.
But given the shifts in policy in the Scandinavian countries and France, as well as the shutdown of the Tavistock gender clinic in England following findings of widespread negligence, I think a more realistic interpretation is that puberty blockers aren't carefully prescribed at all, but act as a gateway or first step on a transition pathway that few step off. Angst about puberty is, after all, nothing new.