1. Yeah, your example makes sense. The real world just doesn't really map onto it though. Especially in the case of the white racists who enslaved and then segregated themselves from black people. What exactly were they afraid of? What did black people ever do to them? And why on Earth would whatever that was resonate even today? I'm not…
1. Yeah, your example makes sense. The real world just doesn't really map onto it though. Especially in the case of the white racists who enslaved and then segregated themselves from black people. What exactly were they afraid of? What did black people ever do to them? And why on Earth would whatever that was resonate even today? I'm not defending racism in either case, but at least many black people in America have a legitimate gripe about the way their ancestors were treated.
I just don't see being black as an identity. I like my skin, I wouldn't want to wake up tomorrow with different coloured skin, but it doesn't carry the weight it does for some other people (most people I know, black and otherwise, feel the same way. But as you say, birds of a feather...).
I don't think capitalising the "b" in "black" is racist. It's just stupid. It collectivises people who aren't a collective. It's like capitalising the "t" in "tall" or even the "g" in "gay."
- 100% agree on the legitimate gripe point. Indeed the biggest gripe is not the historical racism, but the racism & bias that is alive today.
- Yes, I have noticed that your view on being black as VERY unusual, AND at your best you can be extremely articulate. It is these two things together that got me to join your channel, and to contribute.
American society (and many African American sub communities) have a challenge:
- on the one hand, as a group, it is true that blacks are at a systematic disadvantage.
- Naturally this galvanizes and reinforces an identity among those oppressed.
- But blacks viewing themselves as importantly different, causes NON-blacks to view them as importantly different.
- Thus in the end, this identification response ends up perpetuating the importance of this identity.
NOTICE: I am not "blaming" blacks for white beliefs here, just noticing a natural cause and effect that is in play.
Your point of view is the anecdote:
- You are quick to acknowledge the many injustices that disproportionally affect blacks.
- Still you reject tying it to black itself, you notice that non-blacks (often to a lesser degree statistically) are also affected by the same injustices.
- Thus your frame the problem, and those to be helped in NON-racial terms.
- If it is done in this way, I think it can gain broader acceptance, so action can happen.
- But also it lessens the white black divide, since it notices whites that are on the disadvantage side and blacks on the advantage side. It makes many different splits.
- If all blacks and whites began framing problems as you see them, then two advantages would come:
(1) black as a critical identity would become less in the minds of all... which naturally would lessen all oppression based on that identity.
(2) shifting the discussion from us and them, to with and without is more likely to gain action from those in the 'with' category. After all, I am presently a 'with' but someday I might be a 'without', but while presently white, I will never be black. that is just 'not my crew' in the same way.
But I think the propagator of your perspective needs to come from a black person.
According to those who believe in Black identity, a non Black person has no authority to speak.
Now I know **YOU** reject this perspective, but that is irrelevant. If that is the listener's perspective, then I as a non-black can never legitimately present evidence to reject the perspective. The well is already poisoned. (if you know the name of that particular debating fallacy).
So you are in a unique position given your (1) color, (2) beliefs, and (3) articulate way with words.
what exactly to do with this uniqueness??? well I dunno! but it seems precious.
1. Yeah, your example makes sense. The real world just doesn't really map onto it though. Especially in the case of the white racists who enslaved and then segregated themselves from black people. What exactly were they afraid of? What did black people ever do to them? And why on Earth would whatever that was resonate even today? I'm not defending racism in either case, but at least many black people in America have a legitimate gripe about the way their ancestors were treated.
2. Yeah, Pew did some research on this recently (https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2022/04/14/race-is-central-to-identity-for-black-americans-and-affects-how-they-connect-with-each-other/). Fully 76% of black people see being black as extremely or very important to how they see themselves. Somewhere in the recesses of my memory I remember seeing a similar question asked to white people and the percentage was waaaay lower.
I just don't see being black as an identity. I like my skin, I wouldn't want to wake up tomorrow with different coloured skin, but it doesn't carry the weight it does for some other people (most people I know, black and otherwise, feel the same way. But as you say, birds of a feather...).
I don't think capitalising the "b" in "black" is racist. It's just stupid. It collectivises people who aren't a collective. It's like capitalising the "t" in "tall" or even the "g" in "gay."
- 100% agree on the legitimate gripe point. Indeed the biggest gripe is not the historical racism, but the racism & bias that is alive today.
- Yes, I have noticed that your view on being black as VERY unusual, AND at your best you can be extremely articulate. It is these two things together that got me to join your channel, and to contribute.
American society (and many African American sub communities) have a challenge:
- on the one hand, as a group, it is true that blacks are at a systematic disadvantage.
- Naturally this galvanizes and reinforces an identity among those oppressed.
- But blacks viewing themselves as importantly different, causes NON-blacks to view them as importantly different.
- Thus in the end, this identification response ends up perpetuating the importance of this identity.
NOTICE: I am not "blaming" blacks for white beliefs here, just noticing a natural cause and effect that is in play.
Your point of view is the anecdote:
- You are quick to acknowledge the many injustices that disproportionally affect blacks.
- Still you reject tying it to black itself, you notice that non-blacks (often to a lesser degree statistically) are also affected by the same injustices.
- Thus your frame the problem, and those to be helped in NON-racial terms.
- If it is done in this way, I think it can gain broader acceptance, so action can happen.
- But also it lessens the white black divide, since it notices whites that are on the disadvantage side and blacks on the advantage side. It makes many different splits.
- If all blacks and whites began framing problems as you see them, then two advantages would come:
(1) black as a critical identity would become less in the minds of all... which naturally would lessen all oppression based on that identity.
(2) shifting the discussion from us and them, to with and without is more likely to gain action from those in the 'with' category. After all, I am presently a 'with' but someday I might be a 'without', but while presently white, I will never be black. that is just 'not my crew' in the same way.
But I think the propagator of your perspective needs to come from a black person.
According to those who believe in Black identity, a non Black person has no authority to speak.
Now I know **YOU** reject this perspective, but that is irrelevant. If that is the listener's perspective, then I as a non-black can never legitimately present evidence to reject the perspective. The well is already poisoned. (if you know the name of that particular debating fallacy).
So you are in a unique position given your (1) color, (2) beliefs, and (3) articulate way with words.
what exactly to do with this uniqueness??? well I dunno! but it seems precious.
Cheers!!