"I have zero moral qualms about abortion. I just don't see any issue for one simple reason: there is no consciousness being eliminated."
Yeah, here's the sticky point for me and I think most people who are pro-choice but also kind of centrist on the issue. I completely agree with you that the issue of murder is about consciousness rather …
"I have zero moral qualms about abortion. I just don't see any issue for one simple reason: there is no consciousness being eliminated."
Yeah, here's the sticky point for me and I think most people who are pro-choice but also kind of centrist on the issue. I completely agree with you that the issue of murder is about consciousness rather than the species. But consciousness is a pretty slippery concept.
I think most people would agree that a baby is conscious. And most would equally agree that a fertilised egg isn't. Something mysterious happens between those two points and I've never heard a good answer as to *when* it happens.
Morally speaking, I'd like to err on the side of "definitely not conscious" side of things (which is why I have no qualms about dismissing the "5 minutes before birth" people). But alongside that, I want there to be as much leeway as possible for women to control their destinies and their bodies.
Again, the frustrating thing is that Roe had all of this pretty well balanced in my opinion.
I am going to reveal something I don't talk about much.
I remember becoming self-aware. At this point I am remembering the remembering but there was one time when I was breast-feeding and crying when I suddenly had the thought, translating to words, "why am I crying?" A moment before I had been nothing but drives. Suddenly there was someone there. I was put on the floor and I crawled and began to lay down memories.
I am not making this up. I clearly remember awakening to self-awareness. I won't call it consciousness.
When I search for fMRI (functional MRI) and fetuses, I get the impression that your magic consciousness point is around 4-5 months, depending upon exactly what parts of the brain a particular study is examining.
"I have zero moral qualms about abortion. I just don't see any issue for one simple reason: there is no consciousness being eliminated."
Yeah, here's the sticky point for me and I think most people who are pro-choice but also kind of centrist on the issue. I completely agree with you that the issue of murder is about consciousness rather than the species. But consciousness is a pretty slippery concept.
I think most people would agree that a baby is conscious. And most would equally agree that a fertilised egg isn't. Something mysterious happens between those two points and I've never heard a good answer as to *when* it happens.
Morally speaking, I'd like to err on the side of "definitely not conscious" side of things (which is why I have no qualms about dismissing the "5 minutes before birth" people). But alongside that, I want there to be as much leeway as possible for women to control their destinies and their bodies.
Again, the frustrating thing is that Roe had all of this pretty well balanced in my opinion.
I am going to reveal something I don't talk about much.
I remember becoming self-aware. At this point I am remembering the remembering but there was one time when I was breast-feeding and crying when I suddenly had the thought, translating to words, "why am I crying?" A moment before I had been nothing but drives. Suddenly there was someone there. I was put on the floor and I crawled and began to lay down memories.
I am not making this up. I clearly remember awakening to self-awareness. I won't call it consciousness.
When I search for fMRI (functional MRI) and fetuses, I get the impression that your magic consciousness point is around 4-5 months, depending upon exactly what parts of the brain a particular study is examining.