Part of the problem is reaction to disingenuous arguments. "It's about the woman's body." That would be called suicide. Abortion doesn't stop the woman's heart. Pro-abortion people hate pictures of fetuses or aborted babies precisely because they look like babies. Undeniably so. Yet I am pro-choice, within the reason you spoke of. The is…
Part of the problem is reaction to disingenuous arguments. "It's about the woman's body." That would be called suicide. Abortion doesn't stop the woman's heart. Pro-abortion people hate pictures of fetuses or aborted babies precisely because they look like babies. Undeniably so. Yet I am pro-choice, within the reason you spoke of. The issue isn't just the nine months of pregnancy, there is also eighteen years of responsibility. A responsibility that many are not ready for, with disastrous results. As for the aborted baby pictures, I see them as a loathsome effort to emotionally torment women who have had abortions because for all but a very few, it is a painful emotional choice that in some cases brings lifelong regret. It is cruel. What forgiveness is in that?
When we adopted our niece since it was an international adoption, we paid for the services of an adoption organization. They were about adopting healthy Chinese girls during China's one child policy or wanting a baby (white) that looked like them, Russian babies that had health issues in orphanages. Why not adopt in the US? The birth mother, depending upon the State, have a certain amount of time to change their mind and taking a baby out of an adoptive parent's arms to give it to the birth mother who changed her mind is heart wrenching. You also must deal with the social workers who burrow into your past. My wife was in tears having to dredge up her horrible childhood with the social worker. Nothing is as clean and simple as we wish it to be.
I truly get MXM's lack of trust issue. Like with the gun control people with "We only want..." until they get it. And then the Arab story of the camel's nose comes to mind. With a rebel yell, they cry more, more, more! With 3rd rail issues there is no trust. The only way to solve it is for the two sides to choose a champion and throw them into a pit with a machete in their hand to settle it with a death match. Tolerance is in short supply.
Dave Murray: " Yet I am pro-choice, within the reason you spoke of. The issue isn't just the nine months of pregnancy, there is also eighteen years of responsibility. A responsibility that many are not ready for, with disastrous results."
You echo my dad, who was an LA County criminal prosecutor and for 17 years a Superior Court criminal judge. He saw those "disastrous results" every working day.
And you are absolutely right, even if your comment says "pro-abortion." Nobody is "pro-abortion." It's a "painful emotional choice" that necessarily needs to be available for the reasons you and my dad articulated. The only really sound arguments against it are religious and those don't belong in the political sphere in a secular government.
Nobody is telling pro-life people to get an abortion. The truth with the pro-life movement is, at bottom, that it doesn't believe in a secular government.
Correct on "pro-abortion." While there are attention seekers like the idiot actress with a shirt boasting her multiple abortions. For most it is a painful decision that they keep to themselves.
I think there is something insane in demanding that a woman be forced to give birth. Nasty diatribes about "inconvenience" and "keeping her legs together" .. have these people no experience with sex?
Never mind that last part.
If she can't afford to have a child, that's as good a reason as fetal deformity.
Besides, we 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐨 err on the side of lower birth rate.
Part of the problem is reaction to disingenuous arguments. "It's about the woman's body." That would be called suicide. Abortion doesn't stop the woman's heart. Pro-abortion people hate pictures of fetuses or aborted babies precisely because they look like babies. Undeniably so. Yet I am pro-choice, within the reason you spoke of. The issue isn't just the nine months of pregnancy, there is also eighteen years of responsibility. A responsibility that many are not ready for, with disastrous results. As for the aborted baby pictures, I see them as a loathsome effort to emotionally torment women who have had abortions because for all but a very few, it is a painful emotional choice that in some cases brings lifelong regret. It is cruel. What forgiveness is in that?
When we adopted our niece since it was an international adoption, we paid for the services of an adoption organization. They were about adopting healthy Chinese girls during China's one child policy or wanting a baby (white) that looked like them, Russian babies that had health issues in orphanages. Why not adopt in the US? The birth mother, depending upon the State, have a certain amount of time to change their mind and taking a baby out of an adoptive parent's arms to give it to the birth mother who changed her mind is heart wrenching. You also must deal with the social workers who burrow into your past. My wife was in tears having to dredge up her horrible childhood with the social worker. Nothing is as clean and simple as we wish it to be.
I truly get MXM's lack of trust issue. Like with the gun control people with "We only want..." until they get it. And then the Arab story of the camel's nose comes to mind. With a rebel yell, they cry more, more, more! With 3rd rail issues there is no trust. The only way to solve it is for the two sides to choose a champion and throw them into a pit with a machete in their hand to settle it with a death match. Tolerance is in short supply.
Dave Murray: " Yet I am pro-choice, within the reason you spoke of. The issue isn't just the nine months of pregnancy, there is also eighteen years of responsibility. A responsibility that many are not ready for, with disastrous results."
You echo my dad, who was an LA County criminal prosecutor and for 17 years a Superior Court criminal judge. He saw those "disastrous results" every working day.
And you are absolutely right, even if your comment says "pro-abortion." Nobody is "pro-abortion." It's a "painful emotional choice" that necessarily needs to be available for the reasons you and my dad articulated. The only really sound arguments against it are religious and those don't belong in the political sphere in a secular government.
Nobody is telling pro-life people to get an abortion. The truth with the pro-life movement is, at bottom, that it doesn't believe in a secular government.
"The truth with the pro-life movement is, at bottom, that it doesn't believe in a secular government."
🎯
Correct on "pro-abortion." While there are attention seekers like the idiot actress with a shirt boasting her multiple abortions. For most it is a painful decision that they keep to themselves.
I think there is something insane in demanding that a woman be forced to give birth. Nasty diatribes about "inconvenience" and "keeping her legs together" .. have these people no experience with sex?
Never mind that last part.
If she can't afford to have a child, that's as good a reason as fetal deformity.
Besides, we 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐨 err on the side of lower birth rate.
I'm so sorry for your wife. I hope that the ensuing joy of raising a child helped heal that retraumatization to some degree.