Today we have not just one conversation, but two! Or rather, one conversation that sparked another. These comments from Karyn and V show two perspectives I often see in the white and the black communities so it’s nice to be able to present them both in one place.
WOW! One-a Your best EVER, Steve. When You lay it out like that, I get deluded and think, "Why doesn't EVERYBODY agree with You, 110%." Ultimately, as far as I know, the ONLY thing a person can do is look at themselves and change THEMSELVES. You can point the Way, or I can, but that will never change a person. Only they can do that for themselves, right?
AMAZING, the words You use to point the Way, Steve. Other than when You said Karyn wasn't that important, You're so kind and tender about it. If people could only do THAT, there wouldn't be many problems in the world, as far as I know.
As allus, TYTY. And TY again. Wish I'd "said" that. :)
Thanks Jay. I want to be careful here. I don't mean to imply that all we can do is pay attention to ourselves. That's a good start, but all of us can (and I believe should) do our best to make the world a better place through our conversations and interactions with others.
But we can't do that if we don't examine our own attitudes first, and we *certainly* can't do it if we're just doing as we're told or acting out of guilt.
I come across people like V all the time, who think that you can make people do what you want by making them feel guilty or by intimidating them into silence. It might even work for a while, but only for a while. In the end, we need to truly believe in what we're saying and doing.
I always say things wrong, in one Way or another, Steve. I go along with what You said, and raise You one. ;) Yah, interactions with others is one-a the main things in and OF life. What we do in other Ways, large and small. Paying attention to oneself is the be-all and end-all, only if You want to escape from reality. Some do.
But I still go back to what I said, and say it's a fundamental law: No, that's just plain stupid when one-a the three laws I've lived by for decades would do, perhaps, better in its place. I never heard-a Stoicism, until about a year ago, and that's where this comes from:
Epictetus:
"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. It is only after you have faced up to this fundamental rule and learned to distinguish between what you can and can't control that inner tranquility and outer effectiveness become possible."
And, as far as I've ever been able to determine, what somebody else does is not within our control. Only real thing that IS in our control is what WE decide to do. PREFERABLY after examining our own attitudes, as You "said," Steve. That's what I was leaning towards in what I said above. It may not seem like it, but no matter WHAT Karyn heard or did not hear, it was actually she HERSELF, that DECIDED to feel guilty. It might APPEAR that she was doing something that somebody else told her to do. She might think that herself. But no, she made a, perhaps TOTALLY UNconscious, choice about what she did or decided not to do. As far as I know.
I could give REAMS of examples, but I've prolly ALREADY bored Ya to tears! So, no...
As allus, I appreciate Your time, Your thoughts, and Your reply.
At least ONE wrong thing, this time, was not including another thing Epictetus said:
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."
Could riff on that but, instead, SURE when we interact with someone else, if it's ANY kind-a truth-telling at all, what You say HEAVILY influences what I write back. But when You get down to CAUSES, I'm the one who chooses what I write. NOT setting aside the INTERPLAY. But, if it were otherwise, I wouldn't be enabled to take full RESPONSIBILITY for what I say/do. Given, most people don't bother with such quaint concepts. Still...
Bed early, tired and I get up early. TYTY, if You read all this garbage, You all.
WOW! One-a Your best EVER, Steve. When You lay it out like that, I get deluded and think, "Why doesn't EVERYBODY agree with You, 110%." Ultimately, as far as I know, the ONLY thing a person can do is look at themselves and change THEMSELVES. You can point the Way, or I can, but that will never change a person. Only they can do that for themselves, right?
AMAZING, the words You use to point the Way, Steve. Other than when You said Karyn wasn't that important, You're so kind and tender about it. If people could only do THAT, there wouldn't be many problems in the world, as far as I know.
As allus, TYTY. And TY again. Wish I'd "said" that. :)
Thanks Jay. I want to be careful here. I don't mean to imply that all we can do is pay attention to ourselves. That's a good start, but all of us can (and I believe should) do our best to make the world a better place through our conversations and interactions with others.
But we can't do that if we don't examine our own attitudes first, and we *certainly* can't do it if we're just doing as we're told or acting out of guilt.
I come across people like V all the time, who think that you can make people do what you want by making them feel guilty or by intimidating them into silence. It might even work for a while, but only for a while. In the end, we need to truly believe in what we're saying and doing.
I always say things wrong, in one Way or another, Steve. I go along with what You said, and raise You one. ;) Yah, interactions with others is one-a the main things in and OF life. What we do in other Ways, large and small. Paying attention to oneself is the be-all and end-all, only if You want to escape from reality. Some do.
But I still go back to what I said, and say it's a fundamental law: No, that's just plain stupid when one-a the three laws I've lived by for decades would do, perhaps, better in its place. I never heard-a Stoicism, until about a year ago, and that's where this comes from:
Epictetus:
"Happiness and freedom begin with a clear understanding of one principle: Some things are within our control, and some things are not. It is only after you have faced up to this fundamental rule and learned to distinguish between what you can and can't control that inner tranquility and outer effectiveness become possible."
And, as far as I've ever been able to determine, what somebody else does is not within our control. Only real thing that IS in our control is what WE decide to do. PREFERABLY after examining our own attitudes, as You "said," Steve. That's what I was leaning towards in what I said above. It may not seem like it, but no matter WHAT Karyn heard or did not hear, it was actually she HERSELF, that DECIDED to feel guilty. It might APPEAR that she was doing something that somebody else told her to do. She might think that herself. But no, she made a, perhaps TOTALLY UNconscious, choice about what she did or decided not to do. As far as I know.
I could give REAMS of examples, but I've prolly ALREADY bored Ya to tears! So, no...
As allus, I appreciate Your time, Your thoughts, and Your reply.
At least ONE wrong thing, this time, was not including another thing Epictetus said:
"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."
Could riff on that but, instead, SURE when we interact with someone else, if it's ANY kind-a truth-telling at all, what You say HEAVILY influences what I write back. But when You get down to CAUSES, I'm the one who chooses what I write. NOT setting aside the INTERPLAY. But, if it were otherwise, I wouldn't be enabled to take full RESPONSIBILITY for what I say/do. Given, most people don't bother with such quaint concepts. Still...
Bed early, tired and I get up early. TYTY, if You read all this garbage, You all.