"Please don't tell me you believe that both have equally valid points." I think they both have points. I don't think it's in the interests of the sane people in the middle to quibble about whether they're equal but rather to oppose *all* the insanity whoever it's coming from. The left: The sexualisation of children, trans surgeries for m…
"Please don't tell me you believe that both have equally valid points."
I think they both have points. I don't think it's in the interests of the sane people in the middle to quibble about whether they're equal but rather to oppose *all* the insanity whoever it's coming from.
The left: The sexualisation of children, trans surgeries for minors, male rapists in female prisons, lying about racial history, majority control of the mainstream media leading to skewed or outright incorrect public information (see certain aspects of COVID response, ignorance about police brutality and its impact on black people)...
The right: The sexualisation of children, rollback of abortion rights, gay marriage, interracial marriage, lying about racial history, total rejection of anything in the "mainstream media" leading to absolute insanity (see people who truly believe the election was stolen, that COVID was a hoax)...
I could go on and on.
The point is, both the left and the right point to these insanities and criticise them. And both the left and the right are correct in doing so. The only problem is they wilfully ignore the problems on their side of the aisle.
I like to think I'm sane but I don't have any attraction to the middle, that's for roadkill.
Call it a copout but as you're read before, I don't think the "trans" shit has anything to do with the actual political left. And to be fair I could say the same for MAGA and the right. Both are founded on lies, though I think that a lot of people who call themselves Republicans are on board with MAGA; I see some, but not much, repudiation of the swastika-flag right. OTOH I read a lot of opposition to surgery on kids.
But. I also see one hell of a lot of denial among what I will provisionally call Democrats, people who think that nobody under 18 has had surgery, that the barriers to transitioning from 30 years ago are still in place, angry denial that parents' rights are being overruled if their kid gets on TikTok and decides she's "trans." I've even forwarded some of the links from your backlash article and I get responses that they are printed in biased sources. Anyway.
What you're saying up there is exactly what I've been saying: MAGA and "woke" are mirror images.
I was talking about the "contempt for conservatives" thing. I think they get as least as much contempt from the scoundrels they vote for as from (probably largely fictitious) "leftist elites." I admit I've used phrases like "trailer trash" though not lately but I've used "SJW lunatic" a lot more lately.
Edit: I actually doubt that as many believe the election was stolen as say it; I think it's a qualification for membership and they just say it to belong. Since honesty isn't even a tertiary priority among conservatives now they don't mind knowingly speaking a lie if it makes them feel like they have a group.
The corresponding utterance on the other side is the "trans woman" shit. I don't know how many actually believe that but don't forget how few people know anything about science, any more than those who do know some and insist that biological sex is a continuum.
"I actually doubt that as many believe the election was stolen as say it; I think it's a qualification for membership and they just say it to belong."
Yeah, exactly. Same for the liberals claiming that men can transubstantiate into women. They don't believe it. I've seen them caught out countless times in conversation. But they'll pretend they do until their dying breath. The overwhelming majority of vocal opposition to trans surgery on kids or men in women's spaces is coming from the political right. I've lost count of the num per of times I've been labelled "right wing" whenever I speak about trans issues.
And while you might argue that trans ideology has nothing to do with the actual political left, and while yyou're technically correct, its rhetoric is found exclusively on the political left. Just as MAGA, while nothing to do with genuine political conservatism (and sometimes in direct opposition to it) is nonetheless found exclusively on the political right.
"And while you might argue that trans ideology has nothing to do with the actual political left, and while yyou're technically correct, its rhetoric is found exclusively on the political left. Just as MAGA, while nothing to do with genuine political conservatism (and sometimes in direct opposition to it) is nonetheless found exclusively on the political right."
I think the whole left-right formulation has broken down. Neither extreme is about ideology, both are about belonging, about membership in what we have come to call tribes.
Trump lost; a "trans" woman is a man.
There. I just excluded myself from both.
But this is really bad because when truth is no longer a value then we are in a lot of trouble, and the timing could not be worse. Both tribes are getting crazier and now craziness has bcome a competition.
There is nothing in Das Kapital about gender ideology and nothing in Mein Kampf about it either.
But I still deny the symmetry. A huge percentage of Republicans want Trump back, and even the ones who don't are still party members. A huge number of Democrats don't want children mutilated but a distressing number of them don't even believe it's happening.
We inna heapa trubble no matter how you look at it.
I don't think the symmetry between MAGA and the "trans" cult is any more incidental that both are coming at the same time.
Maybe it's as simple as the harmfulness of social media but I see it as something more frightening, a breakdown of our fundamental concepts of truth and falsehood. That First Amendment garbage won't allow us to shut down social media, though there is talk of banning TikTok for national security reasons, but while I think that would help, both movements would find ways to keep the propaganda flowing.
No, I think we are seeing the beginning of a global crackup. Everyone knows that the future is looking very grim, maybe they feel the approach of some Omega Point.
I could understand if those falling for the extremities were already unbalanced people, but a lot of them arent. Some of the people who've gone MAGA were decent human beings before and a lot of people buying into "trans" are educated enough to know better.
During the "bug-givers" craze when HIV+ men were infecting others, lying about their status, showing someone else's test results, putting on a condom but then perforating it (yes all this really happened) I once cornered someone in a gay club and tried to get him to concede that these men were murderers.
It didn't go very well.
He kept babbling some nonsense about "personal responsibility" and when I tore that up he actually broke out into a sweat, a gush of perspiration, breathing hard and scared to death of making a value judgment. I wasn't intimidating him, I wasn't blocking him.
But he broke out and ran away so fast he tripped.
And this was from me demanding that he admit the trivially obvious.
Parts of the gay culture built a mysticism around HIV; they would get an HIV- tattoo with the goal of having it extended with a vertical crossbar to HIV+. It became a rite of passage.
"Please don't tell me you believe that both have equally valid points."
I think they both have points. I don't think it's in the interests of the sane people in the middle to quibble about whether they're equal but rather to oppose *all* the insanity whoever it's coming from.
The left: The sexualisation of children, trans surgeries for minors, male rapists in female prisons, lying about racial history, majority control of the mainstream media leading to skewed or outright incorrect public information (see certain aspects of COVID response, ignorance about police brutality and its impact on black people)...
The right: The sexualisation of children, rollback of abortion rights, gay marriage, interracial marriage, lying about racial history, total rejection of anything in the "mainstream media" leading to absolute insanity (see people who truly believe the election was stolen, that COVID was a hoax)...
I could go on and on.
The point is, both the left and the right point to these insanities and criticise them. And both the left and the right are correct in doing so. The only problem is they wilfully ignore the problems on their side of the aisle.
"sane people in the middle"
I like to think I'm sane but I don't have any attraction to the middle, that's for roadkill.
Call it a copout but as you're read before, I don't think the "trans" shit has anything to do with the actual political left. And to be fair I could say the same for MAGA and the right. Both are founded on lies, though I think that a lot of people who call themselves Republicans are on board with MAGA; I see some, but not much, repudiation of the swastika-flag right. OTOH I read a lot of opposition to surgery on kids.
But. I also see one hell of a lot of denial among what I will provisionally call Democrats, people who think that nobody under 18 has had surgery, that the barriers to transitioning from 30 years ago are still in place, angry denial that parents' rights are being overruled if their kid gets on TikTok and decides she's "trans." I've even forwarded some of the links from your backlash article and I get responses that they are printed in biased sources. Anyway.
What you're saying up there is exactly what I've been saying: MAGA and "woke" are mirror images.
I was talking about the "contempt for conservatives" thing. I think they get as least as much contempt from the scoundrels they vote for as from (probably largely fictitious) "leftist elites." I admit I've used phrases like "trailer trash" though not lately but I've used "SJW lunatic" a lot more lately.
Edit: I actually doubt that as many believe the election was stolen as say it; I think it's a qualification for membership and they just say it to belong. Since honesty isn't even a tertiary priority among conservatives now they don't mind knowingly speaking a lie if it makes them feel like they have a group.
The corresponding utterance on the other side is the "trans woman" shit. I don't know how many actually believe that but don't forget how few people know anything about science, any more than those who do know some and insist that biological sex is a continuum.
It's like global ergotism.
"I actually doubt that as many believe the election was stolen as say it; I think it's a qualification for membership and they just say it to belong."
Yeah, exactly. Same for the liberals claiming that men can transubstantiate into women. They don't believe it. I've seen them caught out countless times in conversation. But they'll pretend they do until their dying breath. The overwhelming majority of vocal opposition to trans surgery on kids or men in women's spaces is coming from the political right. I've lost count of the num per of times I've been labelled "right wing" whenever I speak about trans issues.
And while you might argue that trans ideology has nothing to do with the actual political left, and while yyou're technically correct, its rhetoric is found exclusively on the political left. Just as MAGA, while nothing to do with genuine political conservatism (and sometimes in direct opposition to it) is nonetheless found exclusively on the political right.
"And while you might argue that trans ideology has nothing to do with the actual political left, and while yyou're technically correct, its rhetoric is found exclusively on the political left. Just as MAGA, while nothing to do with genuine political conservatism (and sometimes in direct opposition to it) is nonetheless found exclusively on the political right."
I think the whole left-right formulation has broken down. Neither extreme is about ideology, both are about belonging, about membership in what we have come to call tribes.
Trump lost; a "trans" woman is a man.
There. I just excluded myself from both.
But this is really bad because when truth is no longer a value then we are in a lot of trouble, and the timing could not be worse. Both tribes are getting crazier and now craziness has bcome a competition.
There is nothing in Das Kapital about gender ideology and nothing in Mein Kampf about it either.
But I still deny the symmetry. A huge percentage of Republicans want Trump back, and even the ones who don't are still party members. A huge number of Democrats don't want children mutilated but a distressing number of them don't even believe it's happening.
We inna heapa trubble no matter how you look at it.
I don't think the symmetry between MAGA and the "trans" cult is any more incidental that both are coming at the same time.
Maybe it's as simple as the harmfulness of social media but I see it as something more frightening, a breakdown of our fundamental concepts of truth and falsehood. That First Amendment garbage won't allow us to shut down social media, though there is talk of banning TikTok for national security reasons, but while I think that would help, both movements would find ways to keep the propaganda flowing.
No, I think we are seeing the beginning of a global crackup. Everyone knows that the future is looking very grim, maybe they feel the approach of some Omega Point.
I could understand if those falling for the extremities were already unbalanced people, but a lot of them arent. Some of the people who've gone MAGA were decent human beings before and a lot of people buying into "trans" are educated enough to know better.
During the "bug-givers" craze when HIV+ men were infecting others, lying about their status, showing someone else's test results, putting on a condom but then perforating it (yes all this really happened) I once cornered someone in a gay club and tried to get him to concede that these men were murderers.
It didn't go very well.
He kept babbling some nonsense about "personal responsibility" and when I tore that up he actually broke out into a sweat, a gush of perspiration, breathing hard and scared to death of making a value judgment. I wasn't intimidating him, I wasn't blocking him.
But he broke out and ran away so fast he tripped.
And this was from me demanding that he admit the trivially obvious.
Parts of the gay culture built a mysticism around HIV; they would get an HIV- tattoo with the goal of having it extended with a vertical crossbar to HIV+. It became a rite of passage.