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Steve QJ's avatar

"The moment he discerned that you weren't of his tribe, he would stop reading, give a little shake of his head, and forget everything he had just read. You would not reach anyone."

No, this isn't true....well, let me be clear and say that of course, some people do exactly as you say. But some don't. Quite regularly I'm told that I've given somebody food for thought. Or that they've seen an issue on a way they hadn't seen it before. I suspect that many more have similar thoughts but don't write a comment telling me so.

And, of course, I'm just one person. There are lots of other people out there doing the same thing in various ways. And lots of others who need to see people speaking up before they find the courage to do the same. Moving the Overton window is a slow, painstaking process. Especially if you're trying to move it to a sensible middle ground instead of just tossing it between extremes. And it takes lots of people, chipping away at the insanity.

All that said, yes, I understand your point. Twitter certainly isn't going to become my primary medium for conversation or persuasion. As I said, I have lots of reasons for increasing my Twitter usage. And given Musk's antics, who knows if Twitter will even be around in a year or two!

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Chris Fox's avatar

"And lots of others who need to see people speaking up before they find the courage to do the same. Moving the Overton window is a slow, painstaking process. Especially if you're trying to move it to a sensible middle ground instead of just tossing it between extremes."

On some further thought I am going to disagree with you here. The big social changes start incremental and then there is a sudden shift in state. This is the nature of chaos theory. Which you can read about on your own time. But the essence is that there are abrupt transitions.

The most recent example that comes to mind is same sex marriage. The numbers shifted around a little, got a little better here and a little worse there, and then suddenly overnight to oppose SSM suddenly seemed absurd. Opposition remained but the majority was ready to see the opposition as nothing but bigotry. Opposition remains and the Catholic nutjobs on the SCOTUS will try to reverse it while Roberts remains tranquilized into detachment. The point is that there was an unexpected and largely unpredictable shift from "weirdos support SSM" to "weirdos oppose SSM."

But this was after a long and fairly steady movement in the right direction. In our contemporary culture wars, do we have that?

No. Things are moving in the wrong direction. Ideas like Christian nationalism that would have gotten an FBI infiltration a generation ago are becoming mainstream. They have the quiet support of many in law enforcement and the military. The flip that seems to be approaching is actual fascism, not the overused hyperbole but the real thing.

There is talk in some state governments of banning not just same-sex but *interracial* marriage. We're going in the wrong direction.

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Peaceful Dave's avatar

"𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬 𝘪𝘯 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘰𝘧 𝘣𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘴𝘢𝘮𝘦-𝘴𝘦𝘹 𝘣𝘶𝘵 *𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭* 𝘮𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘨𝘦."

Do I have vain hope that such talk will bring about a sudden positive shift in resistance to such ideas?

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Chris Fox's avatar

It will be like everything else.

Most people will recoil in horror. Some people will act as if any other position is weakness and capitulation to "PC."

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Chris Fox's avatar

"Quite regularly I'm told that I've given somebody food for thought. Or that they've seen an issue on a way they hadn't seen it before. "

I've gotten the same thing. But I can count the number of minds I've actually changed in 25 years on the fingers of one hand. And all of them were intellectually honest and reflective people. Attributes that define very few indeed.

I hate to sound like I am counseling futility but the only thing that seems to reliably unite opposing sides is a threat from outside both. Remember in the weeks after 9/11 we seemed to drop our tribalism for a while? Well, it was a lot less intense then than now. And that didn't last long.

And any threat powerful enough to overcome the MAGA/Woke division is not likely to be survivable.

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Chris Fox's avatar

"As I said, I have lots of reasons for increasing my Twitter usage."

Maybe you like a challenge, but honestly this is just over the top for me. You know it's a cloaca and you know that the site is deliberately intended for unfinished thoughts.

I could mention a video I saw that this reminds me of but it would groß everyone out.

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