"the only reason for not calling someone a racist is to avoid a fight."
Actually I think a far better reason for not calling someone a racist is because you want to have some hope of making them think more clearly. I've managed this on numerous occasions. Most people with racist attitudes don't think of themselves as racist. And pretty mu…
"the only reason for not calling someone a racist is to avoid a fight."
Actually I think a far better reason for not calling someone a racist is because you want to have some hope of making them think more clearly. I've managed this on numerous occasions. Most people with racist attitudes don't think of themselves as racist. And pretty much everybody dislikes being called a racist. Which means that however accurate it might be, if you label somebody that way, the walls go up and productive conversation is impossible.
The people who write their diatribes calling people racist or calling everybody who disagrees with them (even me sometimes!) racist, only ever make matters worse. The person they're speaking with digs their heels in, or worse, uses the confrontation for justification of their belief that black people are spiteful and irrational and can't handle their "perfectly reasonable facts," further cementing their racist ideas.
But again, I want to change people's minds. Not fight with them, and not write them off as hopeless. Which means I'd rather engage with people when I think they're missing something important. I've spoken to many people who ended up seeing racial issues more clearly after a conversation or two.
I take it from your spellings, Steve ("jewellery"; etc.) that you live in some Commonwealth country. I grew up in the USA, mostly in the south, and I've met hundreds of people who wore their racism with pride. We've had this conversation before; while I don't say that reaching people is hopeless I am a lot more pessimistic about it than you are. Your patience will bring you greater success than I have had, though my efforts have been more in trying to get gay men to stop the confrontational belligerence toward heterosexuals.
And yes, actually seeing that I changed someone's mind is more rewarding than anything.
Of course I understand about raising defensiveness. I have some insights into that I will never tell a living soul.
I've had conversations about race with people from all over the world. In person and online. And yes, you're right, racism is different in different parts of the world because its roots are different and people's moral judgement of it is different. I've met many people who wore their racism with pride. But that doesn't mean their minds can't be changed.
I will never stop loving the opportunity to share this video. It's only 3 minutes long.
I understand where the pessimism comes from. I'm an optimist, but I'm not naive or a fantasist. Even if you do everything perfectly, you only occasionally get the satisfaction of actually *seeing* that you've changed someone's mind (and even more rarely of having them admit it). But if it's possible to get through to the Grand Wizard of the KKK, I think there's hope for most people.
Which is why talking to people as if they’re human beings instead of dismissing them or name-calling is effective. Sadly, especially nowadays, these are also exceptional behaviours.
I don't do the name-calling thing but I do tend to disengage, having run out of patience long ago. In decades online I have only seen two conversions out of thousands of people, which is FAIAP zero.
But that exception strategy works. Once a bigot knows someone from the hated group to be a respectable person the whole attitude crumbles. I like to think I've been the exception a few times for gay-haters.
Opinions by and large change gradually and incrementally in humans. The "conversion" experience is relatively rare - typically only due to traumatic or transcendant experiences.
For example, I know people who were pretty deep into neo-progressive ideology, and who have gradually pulled themselves out of it, typically a small piece at a time over years. I wouldn't call any I have known a "conversion" experience, but despite being slow, such shifts can be important.
I myself am one case in point.
And congrats in being the cognitively dissonant exception! That does work, as you say, albeit usually gradually and incrementally.
I've been a big fan of Daryl Davis since I first learned his story.
Years ago, many assumed it was OK to use the N word around me, and while the war in Vietnam was fresh on people's minds, the "gook" word because I am white. People wear it on their sleeve less now, but how much is a reduction of racism and how much is caution? I cannot say..
When using one of these words will get you escorted from your workplace under guard carrying a box of your personal stuff, it has a way of suppressing bigoted speech.
It was not that long ago that people would use the worst epithets on coworkers, I remember it well.
"the only reason for not calling someone a racist is to avoid a fight."
Actually I think a far better reason for not calling someone a racist is because you want to have some hope of making them think more clearly. I've managed this on numerous occasions. Most people with racist attitudes don't think of themselves as racist. And pretty much everybody dislikes being called a racist. Which means that however accurate it might be, if you label somebody that way, the walls go up and productive conversation is impossible.
The people who write their diatribes calling people racist or calling everybody who disagrees with them (even me sometimes!) racist, only ever make matters worse. The person they're speaking with digs their heels in, or worse, uses the confrontation for justification of their belief that black people are spiteful and irrational and can't handle their "perfectly reasonable facts," further cementing their racist ideas.
But again, I want to change people's minds. Not fight with them, and not write them off as hopeless. Which means I'd rather engage with people when I think they're missing something important. I've spoken to many people who ended up seeing racial issues more clearly after a conversation or two.
I take it from your spellings, Steve ("jewellery"; etc.) that you live in some Commonwealth country. I grew up in the USA, mostly in the south, and I've met hundreds of people who wore their racism with pride. We've had this conversation before; while I don't say that reaching people is hopeless I am a lot more pessimistic about it than you are. Your patience will bring you greater success than I have had, though my efforts have been more in trying to get gay men to stop the confrontational belligerence toward heterosexuals.
And yes, actually seeing that I changed someone's mind is more rewarding than anything.
Of course I understand about raising defensiveness. I have some insights into that I will never tell a living soul.
I've had conversations about race with people from all over the world. In person and online. And yes, you're right, racism is different in different parts of the world because its roots are different and people's moral judgement of it is different. I've met many people who wore their racism with pride. But that doesn't mean their minds can't be changed.
I will never stop loving the opportunity to share this video. It's only 3 minutes long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJbrLl7ayoQ
See also, one of my heroes, Daryl Davis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp3q1Oaezw&t=2s
I understand where the pessimism comes from. I'm an optimist, but I'm not naive or a fantasist. Even if you do everything perfectly, you only occasionally get the satisfaction of actually *seeing* that you've changed someone's mind (and even more rarely of having them admit it). But if it's possible to get through to the Grand Wizard of the KKK, I think there's hope for most people.
Davis' achievement was done by making himself the exception. A virulent bigot can't have exceptions.
Which is why talking to people as if they’re human beings instead of dismissing them or name-calling is effective. Sadly, especially nowadays, these are also exceptional behaviours.
I don't do the name-calling thing but I do tend to disengage, having run out of patience long ago. In decades online I have only seen two conversions out of thousands of people, which is FAIAP zero.
But that exception strategy works. Once a bigot knows someone from the hated group to be a respectable person the whole attitude crumbles. I like to think I've been the exception a few times for gay-haters.
Opinions by and large change gradually and incrementally in humans. The "conversion" experience is relatively rare - typically only due to traumatic or transcendant experiences.
For example, I know people who were pretty deep into neo-progressive ideology, and who have gradually pulled themselves out of it, typically a small piece at a time over years. I wouldn't call any I have known a "conversion" experience, but despite being slow, such shifts can be important.
I myself am one case in point.
And congrats in being the cognitively dissonant exception! That does work, as you say, albeit usually gradually and incrementally.
I've been a big fan of Daryl Davis since I first learned his story.
Years ago, many assumed it was OK to use the N word around me, and while the war in Vietnam was fresh on people's minds, the "gook" word because I am white. People wear it on their sleeve less now, but how much is a reduction of racism and how much is caution? I cannot say..
When using one of these words will get you escorted from your workplace under guard carrying a box of your personal stuff, it has a way of suppressing bigoted speech.
It was not that long ago that people would use the worst epithets on coworkers, I remember it well.