"And make no mistake about it, it's his misogyny that attracts these types of boys and men."
No, it's you who's making the mistake here. You are seemingly determined to believe this. In which case, it's probably a waste of my time repeatedly giving you examples of why it's not true. But I'll make one last try.
"And make no mistake about it, it's his misogyny that attracts these types of boys and men."
No, it's you who's making the mistake here. You are seemingly determined to believe this. In which case, it's probably a waste of my time repeatedly giving you examples of why it's not true. But I'll make one last try.
Yes, many of Tate's fans are probably misogynists. But when a 15-year-old is a misogynist, it's not some deeply held belief in women's inferiority, it's the poorly thought out, simplistic view of a child who hasn't learned better.
Telling this child he's complicit in the actions of men who lived and died before he was born, or telling him he just isn't trying hard enough to find connection, is not going to inspire him to think more carefully. He'll meet this simplistic thinking with simplistic thinking of his own. But talking to him with compassion, listening to him, trying to understand is experience instead of simply asserting that he's just not trying to find connection or he's just drawn to misogyny, will undoubtedly lead to better results. You might also learn something.
You stating that there are lots of people offering better guidance doesn't make it true. It's not true. At least in my experience. I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, but I can't think of anybody even close to the fame of Peterson or Tate giving young men good advice. Especially not on the topics that matter to them. Can you?
Young men in general aren't "the manosphere." They're just people. Childish collectivist terms like these are the excuse lazy people Gove to not examine their lazy thinking. They're exactly, and I mean EXACTLY, the same type of nonsense as the incels who can only think of women as bitter, man-hating, "feminazis" or hypergamous, sluts riding the "cock carousel." Therms like these are used to avoid recognising the individual humanity of people and instead, to lump them under a banner that you are comfortable demonising.
Lastly, I didn't say it was the responsibility of women to solve this. The amount of projection I constantly have to bat way in discussion like these is exhausting. We're talking about the next generation. The children who will eventually become leaders and parents and activists.
*All* of us adults therefore, men and women, have a responsibility to help *all* the members of the generation, boys and girls, to maximise their potential and navigate their struggles. Men and women aren't these distinct silos in society with no overlap. There aren't, in any sane person's mind, women's responsibility and men's responsibilities.
But we do, as a society, seem much more willing to listen to and focus on the issues girls face. That's not to say we always solve them. Clearly we don't. But you don't have to have a two-day long conversation to try to convince somebody that teenage girls are worth of empathy and aren't responsible for the mistakes of every other woman throughout history.
"And make no mistake about it, it's his misogyny that attracts these types of boys and men."
No, it's you who's making the mistake here. You are seemingly determined to believe this. In which case, it's probably a waste of my time repeatedly giving you examples of why it's not true. But I'll make one last try.
Yes, many of Tate's fans are probably misogynists. But when a 15-year-old is a misogynist, it's not some deeply held belief in women's inferiority, it's the poorly thought out, simplistic view of a child who hasn't learned better.
Telling this child he's complicit in the actions of men who lived and died before he was born, or telling him he just isn't trying hard enough to find connection, is not going to inspire him to think more carefully. He'll meet this simplistic thinking with simplistic thinking of his own. But talking to him with compassion, listening to him, trying to understand is experience instead of simply asserting that he's just not trying to find connection or he's just drawn to misogyny, will undoubtedly lead to better results. You might also learn something.
You stating that there are lots of people offering better guidance doesn't make it true. It's not true. At least in my experience. I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, but I can't think of anybody even close to the fame of Peterson or Tate giving young men good advice. Especially not on the topics that matter to them. Can you?
Young men in general aren't "the manosphere." They're just people. Childish collectivist terms like these are the excuse lazy people Gove to not examine their lazy thinking. They're exactly, and I mean EXACTLY, the same type of nonsense as the incels who can only think of women as bitter, man-hating, "feminazis" or hypergamous, sluts riding the "cock carousel." Therms like these are used to avoid recognising the individual humanity of people and instead, to lump them under a banner that you are comfortable demonising.
Lastly, I didn't say it was the responsibility of women to solve this. The amount of projection I constantly have to bat way in discussion like these is exhausting. We're talking about the next generation. The children who will eventually become leaders and parents and activists.
*All* of us adults therefore, men and women, have a responsibility to help *all* the members of the generation, boys and girls, to maximise their potential and navigate their struggles. Men and women aren't these distinct silos in society with no overlap. There aren't, in any sane person's mind, women's responsibility and men's responsibilities.
But we do, as a society, seem much more willing to listen to and focus on the issues girls face. That's not to say we always solve them. Clearly we don't. But you don't have to have a two-day long conversation to try to convince somebody that teenage girls are worth of empathy and aren't responsible for the mistakes of every other woman throughout history.