Hey Steve, have you ever heard of the Duncan Lemp case? In one of the wealthiest, most Dem/progressive counties in America (Montgomery, in MD, where I grew up but no longer live), police barged into a house where this young, right-wing, too-online guy lived with his parents and pregnant girlfriend. Family claims he was shot in his bed- t…
Hey Steve, have you ever heard of the Duncan Lemp case? In one of the wealthiest, most Dem/progressive counties in America (Montgomery, in MD, where I grew up but no longer live), police barged into a house where this young, right-wing, too-online guy lived with his parents and pregnant girlfriend. Family claims he was shot in his bed- the same bed where pregnant GF was sleeping. Because he was associated- at least online- with right-wing (and presumably unsavory) groups, the left has said nothing about this killing which was in some ways similar to that of Brionna Taylor.
So now this guy is a martyr to the incel and alt-right set, and I just want to bang my head against the wall and say, you know what nobody- not right, not center, not left- likes? Police shooting people in their freaking beds! If left and right could make common cause on police brutality we could move the needle, and to me (middle age white lifelong Dem) that's the tragedy of BLM. When they focussed solely on police brutality, they had a sympathetic ear on the right. When they became a catch-all movement of progressive mantras, it's culture war all the way down. Blech.
PS- re: Duncan Lemp. Of course the investigations cleared the cop who shot Lemp and they never released the video footage. To be clear, I'm not a fan of the groups Lemp was part of - not at all- and I have no reason not to believe the policy claims that indeed there were illegal weapons in the house. But they shot the dude in his bed without even trying any other way, about a mile or two from my childhood home, and because of our divided politics, none of the usual suspects said a word.
Yep, I've heard of Duncan Lamp. The details of the case are pretty murky. Lemp's girlfriend claims he was in bed, the police claim he was shot after refusing to comply with orders to get on the ground and trying to get to his gun. Sadly, no video evidence of who is telling the truth, but it's a pretty long way from Breonna Taylor's case.
The police were at the right house, they'd received an accurate tip off that Lamp had illegal firearms, and, if the police testimony is true, fired only when the Lamp refused to follow orders. None of this is true in Breonna's case.
I have to say, I'm not convinced BLM ever had a sympathetic ear on the right. And the idea that the police decided to target this random guy out of the millions of people with horrible politics like his is ridiculous. But there's no doubt the story would have been handled very differently if Lemp were black.
Dear Steve: thank you for your thoughtful reply, which illustrates where I wasn't clear earlier. Of course I didn't mean to suggest that the Taylor and Lemp cases were exactly the same, but they were both no-knock raids where the police made claims that were soundly refuted by the other folks in the residence. In Lemp's case, the police had bodycams but there is no footage of the raid itself. Did they turn the bodycams off? Or destroy the evidence later?
I'm not arguing that Lemp was a saint, and I'm not a right-winger who believes he's a Boogaloo martyr. I'm saying that even in the bluest of blue America, police go guns blazing into residences where there are other people than the suspect, without even trying other means first. I'm trying- perhaps unsuccessfully- to back up your point that that police brutality is a problem that transcends race. I also believe, and I think the Lemp case illustrates this, that with a different framing, common cause around police militarism could bring some right and some left groups together on this particular issue.
Re: BLM and the right, I didn't use the best language. I should have said that at different points, prominent Republicans have expressed some interest and sympathy in police shootings of unarmed civilians. For example, MItt Romney marched in a post-George Floyd vigil. Tim Scott gave speeches on the Senate floor back in 2016 about being stopped around DC as a black man and several of his GOP colleagues were supportive of police reform bills that Scott was sponsoring. Again, it's a very narrow point I'm making, which is there is a constituency on both left and right for police reform, if that issue can be separated from other culture war battle cries.
Thank you for your continued exploration of sensitive topics.
A man was killed by the police in a raid pertaining to illegal firearms, a victimless crime. America has the world's largest prison population. What would it be if crimes had to have a victim? Would there be any story at all here?
Eric Garner was choked to death in a confrontation with the police about illegally selling cigarettes. It is probably safe to assume that the cigarettes had been taxed. Who was a victim in this crime? Why is it a crime? A man died.
We could reduce police interactions with the public that have a possibility of turning deadly by having fewer crimes that shouldn't be a crime. Something that gets little to no discussion.
Feels like something is missing here. As written the story implies that the cops burst into a man's house and killed him in his bed for the crime of posting right wing horseshit on the Internet. Sorry but I don't believe that. Not for a minute.
The edit button is missing, so I have to reply to my own post to extend it.
If the guy was a gun nut then he likely had a pistol under his pillow but it would be nuts to shoot him without first ordering him to hold his hands in the air.
Something is missing in this story, and "the left" has nothing to do with it.
Hey Steve, have you ever heard of the Duncan Lemp case? In one of the wealthiest, most Dem/progressive counties in America (Montgomery, in MD, where I grew up but no longer live), police barged into a house where this young, right-wing, too-online guy lived with his parents and pregnant girlfriend. Family claims he was shot in his bed- the same bed where pregnant GF was sleeping. Because he was associated- at least online- with right-wing (and presumably unsavory) groups, the left has said nothing about this killing which was in some ways similar to that of Brionna Taylor.
So now this guy is a martyr to the incel and alt-right set, and I just want to bang my head against the wall and say, you know what nobody- not right, not center, not left- likes? Police shooting people in their freaking beds! If left and right could make common cause on police brutality we could move the needle, and to me (middle age white lifelong Dem) that's the tragedy of BLM. When they focussed solely on police brutality, they had a sympathetic ear on the right. When they became a catch-all movement of progressive mantras, it's culture war all the way down. Blech.
PS- re: Duncan Lemp. Of course the investigations cleared the cop who shot Lemp and they never released the video footage. To be clear, I'm not a fan of the groups Lemp was part of - not at all- and I have no reason not to believe the policy claims that indeed there were illegal weapons in the house. But they shot the dude in his bed without even trying any other way, about a mile or two from my childhood home, and because of our divided politics, none of the usual suspects said a word.
Yep, I've heard of Duncan Lamp. The details of the case are pretty murky. Lemp's girlfriend claims he was in bed, the police claim he was shot after refusing to comply with orders to get on the ground and trying to get to his gun. Sadly, no video evidence of who is telling the truth, but it's a pretty long way from Breonna Taylor's case.
The police were at the right house, they'd received an accurate tip off that Lamp had illegal firearms, and, if the police testimony is true, fired only when the Lamp refused to follow orders. None of this is true in Breonna's case.
I have to say, I'm not convinced BLM ever had a sympathetic ear on the right. And the idea that the police decided to target this random guy out of the millions of people with horrible politics like his is ridiculous. But there's no doubt the story would have been handled very differently if Lemp were black.
Dear Steve: thank you for your thoughtful reply, which illustrates where I wasn't clear earlier. Of course I didn't mean to suggest that the Taylor and Lemp cases were exactly the same, but they were both no-knock raids where the police made claims that were soundly refuted by the other folks in the residence. In Lemp's case, the police had bodycams but there is no footage of the raid itself. Did they turn the bodycams off? Or destroy the evidence later?
I'm not arguing that Lemp was a saint, and I'm not a right-winger who believes he's a Boogaloo martyr. I'm saying that even in the bluest of blue America, police go guns blazing into residences where there are other people than the suspect, without even trying other means first. I'm trying- perhaps unsuccessfully- to back up your point that that police brutality is a problem that transcends race. I also believe, and I think the Lemp case illustrates this, that with a different framing, common cause around police militarism could bring some right and some left groups together on this particular issue.
Re: BLM and the right, I didn't use the best language. I should have said that at different points, prominent Republicans have expressed some interest and sympathy in police shootings of unarmed civilians. For example, MItt Romney marched in a post-George Floyd vigil. Tim Scott gave speeches on the Senate floor back in 2016 about being stopped around DC as a black man and several of his GOP colleagues were supportive of police reform bills that Scott was sponsoring. Again, it's a very narrow point I'm making, which is there is a constituency on both left and right for police reform, if that issue can be separated from other culture war battle cries.
Thank you for your continued exploration of sensitive topics.
A man was killed by the police in a raid pertaining to illegal firearms, a victimless crime. America has the world's largest prison population. What would it be if crimes had to have a victim? Would there be any story at all here?
Eric Garner was choked to death in a confrontation with the police about illegally selling cigarettes. It is probably safe to assume that the cigarettes had been taxed. Who was a victim in this crime? Why is it a crime? A man died.
We could reduce police interactions with the public that have a possibility of turning deadly by having fewer crimes that shouldn't be a crime. Something that gets little to no discussion.
Feels like something is missing here. As written the story implies that the cops burst into a man's house and killed him in his bed for the crime of posting right wing horseshit on the Internet. Sorry but I don't believe that. Not for a minute.
What's the rest of it?
The edit button is missing, so I have to reply to my own post to extend it.
If the guy was a gun nut then he likely had a pistol under his pillow but it would be nuts to shoot him without first ordering him to hold his hands in the air.
Something is missing in this story, and "the left" has nothing to do with it.