I think the main issue here is the luxury of viewing these questions as abstractions.
As Dillahunty says, you could do away with gender altogether in bathrooms as far as he's concerned. Because he's *not* concerned. He doesn't have to worry about being raped or assaulted or simply made to feel afraid in a bathroom or a changing room or pr…
I think the main issue here is the luxury of viewing these questions as abstractions.
As Dillahunty says, you could do away with gender altogether in bathrooms as far as he's concerned. Because he's *not* concerned. He doesn't have to worry about being raped or assaulted or simply made to feel afraid in a bathroom or a changing room or prison.
He doesn't have to experience the unfairness and frustration of female athletes being beaten mediocre male athlete because of obviously unfair physical advantages.
He doesn't experience the familiar male pattern of abuse that women receive from trans activists.
So why not treat the whole issue as nothing more than a thought experiment? Why not take the opportunity to be a little contrarian and show off how "smart" you are? Why not dismiss the rapes and harassment you're never going to have to face as exceptions? As I've said before, it's astonishing to me how many of the men speaking on this issue have given absolutely no thought to how men's and women's experiences of the world differ.
Also, his partner is trans, so there's never going to be anything approaching rationale on this issue. I have a pet theory that an enormous amount of this ideology is based on internalised homophobia. Both from the (almost always gay) men and women who feel like ti\s better to be trans and "straight" than "cis" and lesbian or gay, and also from the men who don't want to admit that having sex with another male, even if he has long hair and wear makeup, is homosexual sex.
Interestingly enough, one of the many levers that society needs to pull to sort out this mess is to fight homophobia.
I suspect that homophobia is often a fear in the mind of the homophobe that they might have homosexual tendencies and that is how they fight or deny it.
I decided to go look at "trans porn" on a porn site to see it was about. I didn't look at enough to have a statistically relevant opinion but what I saw was revealing. In the "lady boy" category the man man performed felatio on the trans before they assumed the advertised roles. The homosexual aspect was in your face, or his face. Something to appeal to a gay man in denial?
The trans man was bearded and harrier than me. It featured a woman performing close up cunalingus on what could not be confused with a penis. Is that supposed to appeal to a lesbian in denial?
I mention all that because the superficial gender bending was overwhelmingly disrupted by closeup unambiguous homo sex. That seemed purposeful and I would guess the people making that porn know their audience. Gay and lesbian porn where getting turned on by it can be justified by, the dude looks like a pretty woman, etc.
If a sizable portion of homophobia is indeed a fear of ones own suppressed sexual attraction, how can that be fought against or extinguished?
"If a sizable portion of homophobia is indeed a fear of ones own suppressed sexual attraction, how can that be fought against or extinguished?"
Again, I think by decreasing homophobia.
The elephant in the room regarding gender ideology is that they kind of have a point. There's a great deal of stigma, certainly with young men, when it comes to behaving in effeminate ways. And effeminate behaviour in boys often lines up with homosexuality.
If you spend your formative years being bulled and beaten up for not being manly enough, and you also happen to be gay, is it so crazy to think transitioning is your best option? (Especially in today's world where it's #stunningandbrave to do so.) There are Reddit forums full of young boys asking this exact question.
If you're a male interested in performing fellatio, you're not heterosexual. Five cultural minutes ago, this was uncontroversial. But some men are incredibly threatened by that. And this has given them an "out." I'd actually be super interested to know how common this is. I mean, look at the sex industry in Thailand just for starters.
"And effeminate behaviour in boys often lines up with homosexuality."
The majority of the most effeminate men I've ever seen outside gay clubs in the late 70s were heterosexual. The effeminate gay man is a dying stereotype and is largely supplanted now by the hyper-masculine gay man, at the gym five days a week (me) and sporting a beard (I'd die first).
When I was in college and realized I was gay I began going to a gym for the first time in my life, not to be buff but out of fear of attack. In reality, it's never happened. Any time someone was stalking in my direction to "kick ass" he'd get a look at my biceps and pecs and change his mind.
But it was never because I'm gay, which I do not project, it was usually because I yelled at his idiot girlfriend in a convenience store to move her fucking car from blocking both gas pumps.
I have a hard time thinking of "trans" and all its tiresome variants as sexual. A lot of them are eunuchs, psychologically or somatically or both, and it seems like all of them are too attracted to themselves to ever have any desire for anyone else. For all their concern with third-person pronouns, it's the first person that is ever at the front of mind.
When I was a young Jarhead stationed in San Diego, several of us were out and about in town and saw a gym. Fitness freaks, we went in to check it out. There the myth of gay men all being fems died.
It's been years since I was in Bangkok but at that time you found women women on patpong or soi cowboy. The transvesties were down sukumvit where we got off the bus to catch a took took to visit family. Nobody is being deceived, the sex shoppers knew where to go to get what they were looking for. It appears to be a booming business.
My family and I were on a tour bus that went down thru patpong. It was soul crushing. The girls outside the bars as advertisement looked so drugged that I wondered if they remembered their own names. Truly a horrific sight. The "ladies" outside the trans bars appeared to be sober and other than being obvious prostitutes they were not as dreadful a sight. That just might be me as a father of Thai girls who saw that.
"Nobody is being deceived, the sex shoppers knew where to go to get what they were looking for. It appears to be a booming business."
Oh yeah, I think the guys know exactly what they're getting. That's the point. Last time I was there, in 2018, the ladyboy bars were always full to bursting with men. I'm betting they wouldn't call themselves gay, but we all know what they were there for.
Homosexuality is a complete non-issue in my social circles, and I think that makes it easy to forget how incredibly stigmatised it still is in some places. Heck, a few years ago, I read a story about men who meet up with other men to have sex once or twice a week and still insist they're straight.
And yeah, prostitution is always pretty depressing as far as I'm concerned. Though I agree, it can hit new lows in Thailand. The age of some of those girls too...
True story: in one experiment, chimpanzees were introduced to the concept of money. They would earn tokens for certain tasks and could use them to buy treats. They liked it, and it motivated them.
You know where this is going, and you're right. One of the females started turning tricks.
Lay your suspicions to rest and accept it as established fact. It's happened so many times, strident antigay activists caught looking for sex on craigslist, dying of AIDS. Pupilometric dilation at images of gay porn.
Even without the preponderant evidence, I mean, think about it. Heterosexual men want to have sex with women and should be focused on getting women into the sack, not obsessing over what gay men are doing in bed.
I think the main issue here is the luxury of viewing these questions as abstractions.
As Dillahunty says, you could do away with gender altogether in bathrooms as far as he's concerned. Because he's *not* concerned. He doesn't have to worry about being raped or assaulted or simply made to feel afraid in a bathroom or a changing room or prison.
He doesn't have to experience the unfairness and frustration of female athletes being beaten mediocre male athlete because of obviously unfair physical advantages.
He doesn't experience the familiar male pattern of abuse that women receive from trans activists.
So why not treat the whole issue as nothing more than a thought experiment? Why not take the opportunity to be a little contrarian and show off how "smart" you are? Why not dismiss the rapes and harassment you're never going to have to face as exceptions? As I've said before, it's astonishing to me how many of the men speaking on this issue have given absolutely no thought to how men's and women's experiences of the world differ.
Also, his partner is trans, so there's never going to be anything approaching rationale on this issue. I have a pet theory that an enormous amount of this ideology is based on internalised homophobia. Both from the (almost always gay) men and women who feel like ti\s better to be trans and "straight" than "cis" and lesbian or gay, and also from the men who don't want to admit that having sex with another male, even if he has long hair and wear makeup, is homosexual sex.
Interestingly enough, one of the many levers that society needs to pull to sort out this mess is to fight homophobia.
I suspect that homophobia is often a fear in the mind of the homophobe that they might have homosexual tendencies and that is how they fight or deny it.
I decided to go look at "trans porn" on a porn site to see it was about. I didn't look at enough to have a statistically relevant opinion but what I saw was revealing. In the "lady boy" category the man man performed felatio on the trans before they assumed the advertised roles. The homosexual aspect was in your face, or his face. Something to appeal to a gay man in denial?
The trans man was bearded and harrier than me. It featured a woman performing close up cunalingus on what could not be confused with a penis. Is that supposed to appeal to a lesbian in denial?
I mention all that because the superficial gender bending was overwhelmingly disrupted by closeup unambiguous homo sex. That seemed purposeful and I would guess the people making that porn know their audience. Gay and lesbian porn where getting turned on by it can be justified by, the dude looks like a pretty woman, etc.
If a sizable portion of homophobia is indeed a fear of ones own suppressed sexual attraction, how can that be fought against or extinguished?
"If a sizable portion of homophobia is indeed a fear of ones own suppressed sexual attraction, how can that be fought against or extinguished?"
Again, I think by decreasing homophobia.
The elephant in the room regarding gender ideology is that they kind of have a point. There's a great deal of stigma, certainly with young men, when it comes to behaving in effeminate ways. And effeminate behaviour in boys often lines up with homosexuality.
If you spend your formative years being bulled and beaten up for not being manly enough, and you also happen to be gay, is it so crazy to think transitioning is your best option? (Especially in today's world where it's #stunningandbrave to do so.) There are Reddit forums full of young boys asking this exact question.
If you're a male interested in performing fellatio, you're not heterosexual. Five cultural minutes ago, this was uncontroversial. But some men are incredibly threatened by that. And this has given them an "out." I'd actually be super interested to know how common this is. I mean, look at the sex industry in Thailand just for starters.
"And effeminate behaviour in boys often lines up with homosexuality."
The majority of the most effeminate men I've ever seen outside gay clubs in the late 70s were heterosexual. The effeminate gay man is a dying stereotype and is largely supplanted now by the hyper-masculine gay man, at the gym five days a week (me) and sporting a beard (I'd die first).
When I was in college and realized I was gay I began going to a gym for the first time in my life, not to be buff but out of fear of attack. In reality, it's never happened. Any time someone was stalking in my direction to "kick ass" he'd get a look at my biceps and pecs and change his mind.
But it was never because I'm gay, which I do not project, it was usually because I yelled at his idiot girlfriend in a convenience store to move her fucking car from blocking both gas pumps.
I have a hard time thinking of "trans" and all its tiresome variants as sexual. A lot of them are eunuchs, psychologically or somatically or both, and it seems like all of them are too attracted to themselves to ever have any desire for anyone else. For all their concern with third-person pronouns, it's the first person that is ever at the front of mind.
When I was a young Jarhead stationed in San Diego, several of us were out and about in town and saw a gym. Fitness freaks, we went in to check it out. There the myth of gay men all being fems died.
It's been years since I was in Bangkok but at that time you found women women on patpong or soi cowboy. The transvesties were down sukumvit where we got off the bus to catch a took took to visit family. Nobody is being deceived, the sex shoppers knew where to go to get what they were looking for. It appears to be a booming business.
My family and I were on a tour bus that went down thru patpong. It was soul crushing. The girls outside the bars as advertisement looked so drugged that I wondered if they remembered their own names. Truly a horrific sight. The "ladies" outside the trans bars appeared to be sober and other than being obvious prostitutes they were not as dreadful a sight. That just might be me as a father of Thai girls who saw that.
"Nobody is being deceived, the sex shoppers knew where to go to get what they were looking for. It appears to be a booming business."
Oh yeah, I think the guys know exactly what they're getting. That's the point. Last time I was there, in 2018, the ladyboy bars were always full to bursting with men. I'm betting they wouldn't call themselves gay, but we all know what they were there for.
Homosexuality is a complete non-issue in my social circles, and I think that makes it easy to forget how incredibly stigmatised it still is in some places. Heck, a few years ago, I read a story about men who meet up with other men to have sex once or twice a week and still insist they're straight.
And yeah, prostitution is always pretty depressing as far as I'm concerned. Though I agree, it can hit new lows in Thailand. The age of some of those girls too...
The oldest profession.
True story: in one experiment, chimpanzees were introduced to the concept of money. They would earn tokens for certain tasks and could use them to buy treats. They liked it, and it motivated them.
You know where this is going, and you're right. One of the females started turning tricks.
Wow, but I suppose that it shouldn't be surprising.
"𝐼 𝑠𝑢𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑐𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑝ℎ𝑜𝑏𝑖𝑎 𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑓𝑡𝑒𝑛 𝑎 𝑓𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑚𝑖𝑛𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑝ℎ𝑜𝑏𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑚𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑥𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑠 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑓𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑜𝑟 𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑦 𝑖𝑡."
Lay your suspicions to rest and accept it as established fact. It's happened so many times, strident antigay activists caught looking for sex on craigslist, dying of AIDS. Pupilometric dilation at images of gay porn.
Even without the preponderant evidence, I mean, think about it. Heterosexual men want to have sex with women and should be focused on getting women into the sack, not obsessing over what gay men are doing in bed.
Hi Peaceful Dave, I think your first sentence defines homophobia.
Yep.