This Is Pretty Basic Social Hierarchy Stuff

It might seem as if my mind is made up about a lot of issues, but that's not true at all. Especially when it comes to trans issues.

Even though I’ve been having conversations with and about trans people for years, I constantly ask myself if I'm missing something. I consciously seek out a variety trans perspectives. I’m always trying to avoid speaking over people whose voices should be heard.

And in keeping with that goal, today’s conversation doesn’t include me at all! Instead, it features three trans people.

Alexander, a trans man, wrote an article called, Dear Dave Chappelle, in which he tried to bring some nuance to the controversy surrounding Chappelle’s comedy specials. He noted that Dave’s comments about black issues (and even his defences of trans people) were largely forgotten, while his jokes about trans people were, well…

This conversation was fascinating, not only because it features some eye-watering narcissism, but because it pulls all kinds of racial, sexual and gender-based oppression dynamics into a smorgasbord of, well…you’ll see.

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Moira:

Well, first, maybe actually stop trying to talk for Black people, instead of doing it and then asking for forgiveness, because all the Black people I know think Dave was transphobic and were upset about it... but, maybe that’s because almost all the Black people I know are either Queer or Trans...

Also, maybe stop using AAVE if you want to pretend your such an ally to Black people...

Second, I’m sure you have no problem defending Dave, you are a Trans MAN, and not the primary target of his assault. So, really, whatever your point is, don’t try to speak for Trans women who bear the brunt of this society’s transphobia.

On that note, what was your point? You talk about the points Dave made in his special, and ask if we remember them, then assume we don’t.... but you don’t elaborate on why we wouldn’t, so let me tell you. Those points he made, valid as they are, were overshadowed and lost in his trnasphobic rants. If we don’t remember his points, it’s because he choose to punch down at Trans people (again, yeah, Black Trans people exist), particularly Trans women, instead of focusing on things that were responsible for the oppression of Black people.

And yeah, I’m a white Trans woman. I have absolutely no problem people making fun and laughing at white people. As a white person whose aware of my privilege, I can laugh at myself and I can listen and try to empathize with those who are harmed in our racist society. White people, in short, deserve it.

Good comedy is punching up... it’s highlighting disparities, calling attention to injustice, making privileged people uncomfortable, raising awareness, venting justified anger. Dave’s transphobic rants weren’t jokes, they were twisting a knife in the wound and laughing about it... you know, what white people are doing when they make racist jokes... (which, I assume, you equally have no problem with, since comedy is just making fun of people, and you don’t care which way they are punching...)

Dave’s special was just transantagonism and transphobia. Especially when this year we have seen the most Trans people murdered on record (not to mention all of us lost to Dysphoria)... when this year we have seen so much legislation brought forward to restrict our rights... while debating our existence is still perfectly acceptable... and when we are just one presidential election away from having our rights entirely revoked.

Trans people who take issue with Dave’s special didn’t miss his points, we just focused in on his over arching one, which was nothing more than an echo of what society already tells us and there is nothing funny about that... it’s just ignorant and cruel.

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“Well, first, maybe actually stop trying to talk for Black people, instead of doing it and then asking for forgiveness, because all the Black people I know think Dave was transphobic and were upset about it.”

Moira’s decision to criticise a white person for speaking for black people, and then immediately proceed to speak for black people, sets the tone quite nicely for this exchange. But just for the record, I, a black person, didn't think Dave was transphobic and wasn't upset about it. So there’s that.

We’re all familiar with the “argument from authority” fallacy, but lately, I’d say the “argument from victimhood” fallacy has superseded it. People try to win arguments simply by claiming that what they say is what the victimhood group du jour says. If only people still believed in just making good arguments.

And of course, from there we move on to the inevitable “Dave Chappelle basically murdered trans people with his bare hands by telling jokes” schtick. I find this especially repugnant because it so often relies on outright lying about the deaths of trans people for maximum emotional manipulation.

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Alexander:

Interesting that you point out I’m a trans MAN. I mean, yes, I am, but if you’ve read anything else I’ve written (which you possibly haven’t?), you’re ignoring the fact that I spent 50+ years living as a woman. My male privilege was nonexistent until a couple of years ago (and in fact I was fired from my job for being trans). So “punching” at me because I’m a man is a little silly.

At any rate, thanks for responding.

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At this point, another reader named Jenny joins the conversation, replying to Alexander.

Jenny is a regular commenter on trans issues on Medium and offers a unique perspective being both intersex and trans. Suffice it to say, I think we’d be much further along in trans discourse if more people were like Jenny.

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Jenny:

I am so glad you called that out. It amazes me how much trans women punch down on trans men, even though we're natal women. It reeks of the kind of misogyny we faced before transition, especially coming from natal men.

Like you, I lived as a woman for 40+ years so I can empathize with your stance. In fact, I would go so far as to say we've got far more experience being women than most trans women do, and maybe that shouldn't be misandrized or subjected to transphobia either... It's a misogynistic thing to do to trans men!

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Moira:

Trans Women don’t “punch down” at Trans men… Trans Women are Women, Trans men are men… Women don’t punch down at men… This is pretty basic social hierarchy stuff.

Further, yeah, I was raised as a boy, I was conditioned as a boy, and I was expected to be a man… But, my entire life I was a woman. You can say you have “more experience being women” than Trans women, but what you have is more experience being “treated” as a women. What you don’t seem to grasp as that I was gaslit and abused my whole life and forced to live a life I didn’t understand. You want to claim critiquing someone who is defending transphobic “comedy” is being misogynistic, then I suggest you consider your internalized transphobia, because what you are quite clearly saying is that Trans Women aren’t “real women” and you are ignoring the very real abuse and mental torture that is being denied ones identity.

As it were, I’ve never identified as a man and I’ve never had any commonality with men. And, I really hate to break it to you, but you were never a woman either. I’d imagine being forced to exist as one didn’t exactly help you too much with your views on women or Trans women… and from where I sit, that looks like the real misogyny here.

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“Trans Women are Women, Trans men are men… Women don’t punch down at men… This is pretty basic social hierarchy stuff.”

I mean…holy crap.

Again, the argument from victimhood relies on the idea that if you’re enough of a victim, any nastiness or misogyny or other, miscellaneous awfulness, is not only justified, but doesn’t count. 

Women sit above men on the victimhood hierarchy. Trans people sit above everybody on the victimhood hierarchy (at least if you ask people like Moira). So apparently, trans women can do no wrong. It’s “pretty basic social hierarchy stuff.”

But as Jenny points out, the type of man who is nasty and misogynistic and entitled pre-transition tends to remain that way post-transition. 

Hmm, whatever could explain such a thing?

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Jenny:

Boo hoo. In reality, you know nothing about it. Get over it.

And I’m a trans man. That means that I’m a woman who cosmetically presents as masculine, not that I’m actually a man. I highly resent you ignoring my biology and trying to erase 43 years of my life to pretend that you know anything about what being a woman is like. I’m sorry you can’t be validated by reality, but you’re appropriating and need to stop because it’s punching down on natal women.

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Moira:

So what you are saying is that you have no idea what it is then to be a woman trapped in the body that society associates with men... and that you defer to masculinity... I'm guessing then that being expected to be feminine must have made you really resentful towards feminine people...

Speaking of misogyny and all. If you're a "woman" then you really should check your internalized misogyny... Also, being Trans is not "cosmetic" being Trans is literally identifying as as a member of the opposite sex. I'm Trans because I am absolutely not a man and have never, ever identified or related to them... What you are is a terf attempting to co-op language... You're a cross-dresser, and I resent that you think you know the first thing about what my experience is like, and also that you not so subtly suggest I'm really a man. I'm not "appropriating" anything. I am, literally, a woman.

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Maybe it’s because I have so much experience speaking about racial issues, maybe it’s because I know from experience how rarely the loudest, nastiest voices speak for their “communities”, but I’m always conscious of the fact that groups are not monoliths.

Here we have three trans people with three very distinct perspectives. But Moira stands out, right? Obnoxious, unreasonable behaviour tends to do that. And so, if we’re exposed to enough Moiras, it’s tempting to assume their behaviour represents the “trans community.”

But meaningful community doesn’t form around skin or religion or gender identity. And certainly not around nastiness and entitlement. Community forms around values. It forms around actions. It forms around the way we treat people who think differently to us.

There is a community of people who think and behave like Moira. But there’s a larger community who think and behave like Jenny and Alexander. Because their community isn’t just trans people, it’s everybody who is capable of looking beyond their own victimhood.