I'm Sick Of You Being An Apologist For Pervy Men

Back in March, I asked a question in the subscriber-only thread:

Would you say of yourself, or have you noticed in others, that online social justice activism, has driven you to more extreme, hardline positions than would otherwise be the case?

Given the growing toxicity of online debate, I wanted to know if people were becoming less willing to accommodate “the other sides”’s arguments.

This conversation I had on Twitter recently is a perfect example.

We begin with a prominent trans rights activist named Katy, who pointed out what she believed was hypocrisy from those who question trans inclusion in certain female spaces. This was literally the first time I’d seen her admit that there might be some nuance to the issue, so I thought I’d try to discuss it further.

Unfortunately, Katy didn’t reply. But “Umbrella” (hey, I don’t pick people’s usernames) took issue with something I said.

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Katy:

For top level sports I understand (and support) there being scientific debate about when trans women can compete. Why is it that there doesn't seem to be anyone arguing for banning trans women who isn't also arguing to ban us from the toilet and take away our healthcare?

If it was a rational position you'd expect there to be at least some people arguing for a ban whilst also very clearly arguing for all other trans rights.

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Steve QJ:

🙋🏾‍♂️ I’m arguing for that. Though I guess it depends what you mean by “all other trans rights.” I think trans people should use the bathroom of their choice. I think that gets more complex in prisons and crisis centres.

I think trans people should have free, safe healthcare, I think that gets more complex when talking about performing double mastectomies on children.

The tragedy of this conversation is that no nuance is allowed. On either side. You have to pretend all these very complex issues are simple. And that everyone who disagrees is evil.

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Umbrella:

You mean MEN should be able to use women's bathrooms if they want to, right? These TiMs [Editor’s note: this stands for Trans identified Males. A term “Gender Critical” people sometimes use instead of trans woman.] are NOT female & shouldn't be anywhere near women's SSS [Editor’s note: this stands for single-sex spaces].

We don't want them there & you don't get to give them permission to be there. Check Nig Heke's Twtr if you want visuals.

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I did check out Nig Heke’s social media (he’s banned on Twitter). It’s entirely devoted to portraying trans people as rapists and perverts. Of course, some trans people are rapists and perverts. Just as some people in all groups are. But the problem with accounts like these is that they train our minds to respond with availability bias.

You can do this with anything you like.

Want to persuade the world that all white people are racist? Easy. Want your followers to believe that “leftists” are all deranged, hysterical lunatics? No problem. There’s an online echo chamber tailor-made for any idea you can imagine. Most people don’t even realise their view of the world is being manipulated.

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Steve QJ:

There are two important things to understand here. First, bathrooms are segregated by masculinity/femininity, not sex. Butch women are sometimes challenged in bathrooms and trans women who “pass” walk right in.

But more importantly, if you want trans women to use men’s bathrooms, trans men have to use women’s bathrooms. At which point, you’ve just normalised completely masculine looking people in women’s bathrooms.

You’re worrying about the “man in dress and wig” trope, but if you normalise trans men in women’s bathrooms, men wouldn’t even need to bother with the dress and wig. Yes, some women’s spaces are segregated by sex. Sports and prisons for example. But bathrooms are segregated by gender expression.

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Umbrella:

We don't want to 'normalise' MEN in women's bathrooms. Why should we, we don't want them in our SSS. That women are saying #NO we don't accept MEN in women's spaces full stop, doesn't seem to be a good enough reason for you. Why is that?

'Gender expression' what does that even mean? Except dressing in a frock & wig & saying that makes you a woman.

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Steve QJ:

It means that if you look feminine nobody questions you in a bathroom and if you don’t people sometimes do. Again, this affects women. I’m not saying it’s right, but there are lots of butch women who will tell you it’s true.

In fact, they don’t even need to be butch.

I know you don’t want to normalise men in women’s bathrooms. Nor do I. But that’s what forcing trans men, who are *female* to use women’s bathrooms will do. Because trans men look, very often, like men.

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Umbrella:

Most people can tell the difference between a 'butch' woman & a man. Even the one's who've had 'facial feminisation surgery', but keep their peenz. Some men like other men with peenz & moobs. Women's safety is dependent on them being able to clock a predator.

Anyone who is a decent person wouldn't try to FORCE women to accept MEN in their SSS when they've been told we don't want them there. We don't care how they choose to 'identify' they are always MEN. #GetOverIt

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I already knew I was in trouble given the compulsive hashtagging and capitalisation, and the almost complete failure to even hear the distinctions I’m making.

Umbrella is so wound-up that she sees the word “trans” and her instantly brain auto-corrects it to (perverted) man. This, even though trans men are female. Often, females who, beards and muscles and all, look indistinguishable from men.

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Steve QJ:

That’s not true. Yes, there are obviously trans people where you can tell, but lots of others where you can’t. You’re talking about a caricature of trans women here. Figuring out a solution that actually keeps women safe will take more nuance than that.

I’m not trying to force women to do anything. Trans women are *already* using women’s bathrooms. Many of them without anybody batting an eyelid. Your thought process completely ignores trans women who “pass” and trans men. Which is why you think this is simpler than it is.

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Umbrella:

Clearly you're thinking about this, but not from a woman's point of view, obvs, because you're a bloke. Why don't you ask your mates to be more acceptiong of gender non conforming males in YOUR spaces? You are the same SEX, afterall.

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Steve QJ:

What do you mean? Men aren’t complaining about trans women *or* trans men in male spaces. Men are already exposed to all the dangers society has to offer. I’m with you on this. I literally write about these issues in defence of women’s right to privacy and safety. But this is more complex than you’re making out. (I’m talking specifically about bathrooms here, sport and prisons etc. I suspect we agree on.)

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Umbrella:

Would it be a terrible idea to create spaces that anyone who decides to call themselves the opposite SEX to the SEX they were born in can use? We have men's, women's & loos for people who need access to 'disabled' loos. Let's add another that T identifiers can use. 🤷‍♀️

You know why T identifiers don't want that, right? They wouldn't get their so much needed validation & some do like a good wank while they're in the 'ladies', so that might drop off a little.

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Steve QJ:

It’s not a terrible idea. But I don’t think there’s much point in proposing an idea you know isn’t going to happen. I mean, do you see this actually happening? The time and cost alone of building a whole new category of toilets nationwide makes it unrealistic.

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Umbrella:

Do one Steve. I'm sick of you being an apologist for pervy MEN who want to FORCE women to accept MEN in women's SSS.

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Aaaaand, blocked.

As people on both sides of this issue become more unreasonable, both have begun to take increasingly all-or-nothing stances. And more importantly, become incapable of even comprehending a nuanced argument.

Trans activists pretend that trans women are never sexual predators (despite all evidence to the contrary), or that allowing any man who says, “I’m a woman,” to use female-only spaces isn’t an obvious safeguarding concern.

People like Umbrella pretend that every single trans person, male and female, is a pervert who is hell-bent on entering women’s bathrooms for nefarious reasons.

I suspect the extremists on both sides will be unhappy with how this pans out.

Trans women, at least those who “pass”, will continue using female bathrooms as they already do. There’s a good chance Umbrella has already used a bathroom alongside a trans woman without even realising.

As for trans women in female sports? Sanity, I believe, will prevail. There’s only so much reality denying society can do before acknowledging that the unfairness of males competing against females is the entire reason female sport exists.

The road to that moment of sanity will inevitably have bumps like these. The emotion this topic generates from both sides is understandable. But still, it would be so much smoother if we listened to each other.